Our Common Text 2004-2005
ROUGHLY EDITED COPY
ROCHESTER INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
COMMON TEXT SERIES.
PRESENTER: ANDRE DUBUS III, AUTHOR, HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG
********
This text is being provided in a rough draft format. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
********
>> Mary Lynn Broe: WOULD EVERYBODY SIT DOWN SO WE CAN
GET STARTED, PLEASE, ON THIS DARK AND STORMY NIGHT?
I'M MARY LYNN BROE, CHAIR OF LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE, AND I
WANT TO WELCOME ALL OF YOU THIS EVENING.
MANY OF US DON'T KNOW THAT THE COMMON TEXT IS A 27-YEAR
TRADITION IN LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE DEPARTMENT.
IT'S KIND OF OUR SIGNATURE EVENT EACH YEAR.
IN THE PAST, WRITERS AS RICH
AS DIVERSE AS TONY MORRISON,
MAXINE HONG KINGSTON, WILLIAM
KENNEDY, MICHAEL ONDAATJE,
COLSON WHITEHEAD, HAVE COME
AND HAVE SHARED WITH US BITS
OF THEIR IMAGINATION AND THE
TRICKS OF THEIR TRADE IN CRAFT.
HUNDREDS OF YOU EACH YEAR READ
IN WRITING, IN OUR CORE
WRITING COURSE, READ THE COMMON TEXT.
SWIRLING AROUND THAT EVENT OF
YOUR READING ARE FACULTY
PANELS, FACULTY TALKS, CLASS
VISITATIONS, THE PROVERBIAL
PIZZA PARTY EVERY JANUARY, AND
A NUMBER OF OTHER EVENTS SUCH
AS TONIGHT, WHEN WE HAVE AN
AUTHOR VISIT WITH US, ANDRE
DUBUS III, AUTHOR OF THE
AWARD-WINNING "HOUSE OF SAND
AND FOG," AND YOU'RE ABLE TO
MEET HIM, LISTEN TO HIM AND
TALK WITH HIM.
BEFORE I HAND THE MICROPHONE
OVER TO ELENA SOMMERS, I WANT
TO THANK THREE GROUPS OF
PEOPLE WHO HAVE IN PARTICULAR
MADE THIS EVENT POSSIBLE FOR
US TONIGHT.
FIRST OF ALL THE TECHNICAL
SUPPORT TEAM, WITH WHOM WE
COULDN'T DO WITHOUT.
LET'S GIVE THEM A HAND.
(Applause)
SECOND, AND THIS IS NOT IN ANY
KIND OF ORDER, IS THE COMMON
TEXT COMMITTEE.
MANY OF YOU DON'T KNOW THAT
THESE FACULTY MEMBERS OF YOURS
WORK FOR A YEAR PLANNING THIS
EVENT. THE COMMON TEXT COMMITTEE
CHAIR IS LINDA REINFELD, AND
WHEN I FINISH ANNOUNCING NAMES
I'M GOING TO ASK THEM TO STAND
UP AND IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AND
WE'LL GIVE THEM A HAND.
ON HER COMMITTEE ARE FIVE
OTHER FACULTY: ANDY PERRY,
LINDA RUBLE (sp?), ELENA
SOMMERS, TOM STONE AND VINCENT
F.A. GOLPHIN. COME ON, FOLKS.
(Applause)
LAST OF ALL I WANT TO THANK
CRITICAL PEOPLE TO THIS EVENT,
AND THAT IS OUR INTERPRETERS
FROM NTID.
COULD THEY ALSO STAND UP AND
WE'LL GIVE THEM A HAND,
PLEASE?
(Applause)
NOW ELENA SOMMERS, PLEASE
WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU, AS MY
STUDENTS IN THE BACK ROW WOULD
SAY, "OKAY, BROE, ENOUGH,
CHILL."
HERE'S ELENA.
>> Elena: GOOD EVENING,
EVERYBODY.
I THINK I'M GOING TO TRY TO
USE THAT MICROPHONE BECAUSE
I'VE GOT A CHEAT SHEET HERE
I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO, SO I'M
GOING TO TRY TO GO OVER THERE.
CAN YOU HEAR ME?
OKAY, GOOD.
(Laughter)
THANK YOU, Dr. BROE, FOR THE
LOVELY INTRODUCTION.
YOU ALL KNOW THAT, OVER THE
PAST TWO MONTHS, RIT STUDENTS
HAVE BEEN STUDYING THE "HOUSE
OF SAND AND FOG."
WE DELIVERED PRESENTATIONS; WE
ANALYZED; WE HAD HEATED
DEBATES OVER THE NOVEL'S
ISSUES.
WE OFTEN ARGUED.
WE ARGUED BECAUSE I THINK THIS
BOOK ACHIEVED WHAT FEW CAN,
WHICH IS IT LEFT NO READER
INDIFFERENT.
"THE HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG"
ENCOURAGED US TO GET
ACQUAINTED WITH IRAN, ITS
CULTURE, ITS HISTORY AND ITS
POLITICS, AND WE LOVE THE
BOOK, AND THE CHARACTERS DROVE
US CRAZY.
WE DESPERATELY WANTED THEM TO
MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS, AND
THEY NEVER DID.
AS WE READ ON, WE GOT
FRUSTRATED WITH KATHY; WE WERE
PUZZLED BY LESTER THEN
BEHRANI'S CHOICES AND WE
GRIEVED FOR NADI AND ESMAIL.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY WE HAD
QUESTIONS.
WE HAD MANY, MANY QUESTIONS,
ESPECIALLY AS WE REACHED THE
NOVEL'S END.
WELL, TODAY ANDRE DUBUS
HIMSELF IS HERE WITH US TO
ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS.
IT'S A RARE TREAT AND HONOR.
"THE HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG"
HAS NOW BEEN PUBLISHED IN 25
COUNTRIES AND, AS YOU KNOW, IS
NOW A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE.
THE NOVEL WAS A FICTION
FINALIST FOR THE NATIONAL BOOK
AWARD.
THE "LOS ANGELES TIMES" BOOK
PRIZE, AND THE L.L.
WINSHIP/PEN NEW ENGLAND AWARD.
IT WAS NAMED THE BOOK OF THE
YEAR.
IT IS AN OPRAH BOOK CLUB
SELECTION, AND A NUMBER ONE
"NEW YORK TIMES" BEST SELLER.
ANDRE DUBUS III IS THE AUTHOR
ALSO OF A COLLECTION OF SHORT
FICTIONS ENTITLED, "THE CAGE
KEEPER AND OTHER STORIES."
AND HE HAS ANOTHER NOVEL,
WHICH IS CALLED "BLUESMAN,"
WHICH IS NOW IN PREPRODUCTION
AS A FEATURE FILM.
ANDRE DUBUS'S WORKS HAVE BEEN
INCLUDED IN "THE BEST AMERICAN
ESSAYS OF 1994," "THE BEST
SPIRITUAL WRITING OF 1999,"
AND THE "BEST OF HOPE
MAGAZINE."
HE HAS BEEN AWARDED A
GUGGENHEIM FELLOWSHIP, THE
NATIONAL MAGAZINE AWARD FOR
FICTION, AND THE PUSHCART
PRIZE.
ANDRE DUBUS IS A MEMBER OF PAN
AMERICAN CENTER AND THE
EXECUTIVE BOARD OF PEN NEW
ENGLAND.
HE SERVED AS A PANELIST FOR
THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE
ARTS AND HAS TAUGHT WRITING AT
HARVARD UNIVERSITY, TUFTS
UNIVERSITY AND EMERSON
COLLEGE.
HE IS CURRENTLY TEACHING AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF
MASSACHUSETTS AT LOWELL.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE
HELP ME WELCOME A FASCINATING
AUTHOR, ANDRE DUBUS III TO
RIT.
(Applause and cheering)
>> Andre: SO NICE TO BE HERE
AND THANK YOU, ELENA, FOR THAT
LOVELY INTRODUCTION.
I KNOW IT'S THE 7th GAME IN
THE AMERICAN LEAGUE
CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES.
(Cheering)
AND I'M FROM BOSTON.
I'LL JUST GET IT UP FRONT NOW.
(Applause and cheering)
(Booing)
AND SO I'M GOING TO TALK FOR
FIVE MINUTES AND WE'LL GO
WATCH THE GAME.
(Applause and cheering)
I'M SERIOUS.
I WAS HOPING WE COULD GET
THERE BY THE FOURTH INNING TO
SEE THE LEAD THE RED SOX ARE
GOING TO HAVE.
ACTUALLY IT'S HARD TO HATE THE
YANKEES RIGHT NOW.
I ACTUALLY DON'T HATE THEM.
I'D LIKE TO TALK-- ACTUALLY MY
FAVORITE PART ABOUT SHOWING UP
IN PUBLIC AND TALKING IS
ACTUALLY HAVING A
CONVERSATION.
SO I'M GOING TO TALK AWHILE
ABOUT THE WRITING OF THIS
NOVEL A LOT OF YOU GUYS HAVE
READ.
BUT THEN I WOULD REALLY LIKE
TO TURN IT OVER TO YOU AND I'D
BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS, AND BELIEVE ME WHEN
I TELL YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO
LIKE THE BOOK.
I'VE MET PEOPLE WHO HAVE
THROWN IT ACROSS THE ROOM.
I HAVE A FRIEND WHO HASN'T
TALKED TO ME IN A COUPLE OF
YEARS, AND I KNOW IT'S A
PAINFUL STORY, SO DON'T BE
AFRAID TO BE CRITICAL.
I DIDN'T COME HERE JUST TO BE
APPLAUDED, SO FEEL FREE TO BE
HONEST AND WE'LL HAVE A
SUBSTANTIAL CONVERSATION.
(Scattered applause)
GOOD, YOU'RE FIRST.
(Laughing)
ALL RIGHT.
I GUESS I'D LIKE TO BEGIN BY
TELLING YOU HOW THIS NOVEL
CAME ABOUT, AND THAT'S ALWAYS
A STRANGE TOPIC, BECAUSE I
DON'T THINK ANY BOOK OR POEM
OR PAINTING OR ANY DANCE
PIECE, WHATEVER THE ART FORM
IS, I DON'T THINK THEY EVER
COME ABOUT IN THE EXACT SAME
WAY.
I CAN TELL YOU THIS CAME FROM
TWO SOURCES, AND I FIND THAT
WHEN I WORK WITH A NOVEL, THIS
HAPPENS A LOT.
IT'S ALMOST AS IF THERE'S A
SPERM AND AN EGG, AND THE TWO
IDEAS SOMETIMES COME TOGETHER
AND THEN A BABY COMES TO FULL
FRUITION.
OTHER TIMES, AS IN NATURE,
MISCARRIAGE AND THE SAME TURNS
INTO A SHORT STORY OR A BAD
POEM.
IN MY CASE A BAD POEM.
I MEAN THAT SINCERELY.
OKAY.
SO WHEN I WAS 17 YEARS OLD, I
WAS AT THE BRADFORD COLLEGE, A
SMALL COLLEGE IN NEW ENGLAND,
WHICH IS NO LONGER IN
EXISTENCE.
AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH THIS
BEAUTIFUL IRANIAN GIRL.
I MEAN I COULDN'T BREATHE
AROUND HER.
I JUST-- SHE WAS SO BEAUTIFUL,
NOT JUST PHYSICALLY, BUT SHE
HAD THIS PRESENCE THAT I-- I
COULDN'T-- IT WAS THE FIRST
TIME-- IT WAS REALLY IT WAS A
FIRST LOVE, IT REALLY WAS.
I REALLY COULDN'T BREATHE FIVE
FEET FROM HER.
AND OF COURSE SHE DIDN'T KNOW
I WAS ALIVE FOR ABOUT TWO
YEARS.
REALLY.
AND I TRIED TO CHASE AFTER HER
AND GET HER TO NOTICE ME AND
DATE HER, AND AFTER ABOUT TWO,
TWO-AND-A-HALF YEARS I FINALLY
WAS ABLE TO START DATING HER
AND I QUICKLY REALIZED AND IF
ANY OF YOU ARE FROM THE
IRANIAN CULTURE, YOU KNOW WHAT
I'M SAYING: YOU CAN'T REALLY
DATE AN IRANIAN GIRL THE WAY
YOU CAN DATE AMERICAN GIRLS,
ESPECIALLY FROM THIS FAMILY,
WHICH WAS VERY CONSERVATIVE
FROM THAT CULTURE, A VERY OLD,
PROUD CULTURE.
SO I FOUND THAT IN ORDER TO
SEE HER OUTSIDE OF CLASS, THE
ONLY WAY I COULD DO IT WAS TO
GO TO HER MOTHER'S APARTMENT
ABOUT FIVE BLOCKS FROM THE
CAMPUS, AND THAT IS ACTUALLY
WHY HER MOTHER WAS LIVING
THERE AT ALL WAS TO CHAPERONE
HER DAUGHTER IN COLLEGE AND
MAKE SURE SHE, YOU KNOW, WAS A
PROPER GIRL.
AND SO I SPENT A LOT OF TIME
AT HER MOTHER'S HOUSE, AND SHE
HAD A LITTLE BROTHER AND A
LITTLE SISTER, AND THEY WOULD
SIT AROUND WHAT IN FARSI IS
CALLED THE SOFREH, WHICH IS A
BEAUTIFUL CARPET LAID OUT WITH
PERSIAN FOOD.
AND THE MOTHER SPOKE VERY
LITTLE ENGLISH, SO THEY MAINLY
SPOKE FARSI WHEN I WAS THERE,
AND I'D HEAR THINGS LIKE.
(Speaking foreign language)
AND THEN ANDRE AND I'D LOOK TO
SEE MY NAME AND SEE WHAT THEIR
FACES LOOKED LIKE TO SEE IF I
COULD SEE WHAT THEY WERE
TALKING ABOUT, AND I LIVED
THIS LIFE FOR ABOUT 18 MONTHS
OR SO.
AND ONE DAY-- SO I DATED HER
WHOLE FAMILY.
THE WAY TO DATE HER WAS TO
DATE HER WHOLE FAMILY AND I
CAME TO REALLY LOVE HER
FAMILY.
AND ONE DAY-- HER FATHER,
HOWEVER, WAS NOT IN UNITED
STATES.
THIS IS SHORTLY AFTER THE
REVOLUTION THEY PUT KHOMEINI
IN POWER AND HE WASN'T THERE
YET.
HE WAS IN EUROPE SETTLING
THEIR AFFAIRS.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT AT THAT
MEANT, SETTLING THEIR AFFAIRS
BUT NOW I KNOW IT WAS ALL
ABOUT MONEY.
AND ONE DAY, I NOTICED THERE
WAS A NEW PHOTOGRAPH ON THE
WALL, AND WE WERE SITTING DOWN
TO THIS BEAUTIFUL PERSIAN STEW
CALLED ABGOUSHT, AND I WAS
SITTING THERE AND I LOOKED ON
THE WALL AND I SAID TO MY
GIRLFRIEND: "THAT'S A PICTURE
OF THE SHAH?"
SHE SAID, "YES, ANDRE.
I KNOW IT'S THE SHAH."
"WELL, WHO'S THAT MAN NEXT TO
THE SHAH?"
IT WAS A MAN, BALD GENTLEMAN,
SMOKING A CIGAR, LOOKED VERY
RELAXED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE
SHAH OF IRAN.
SHE SAID, "OH, THAT'S BABBA."
BABBA IN PERSIAN IS DADDY.
I SAID, "THAT'S YOUR FATHER?
YOUR FATHER WHO IS COMING NEXT
WEEK TO MEET ME?
HE WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE
BRUTAL DICTATOR, THE SHAH OF
IRAN"?
"OH, YES, VERY CLOSELY AND
HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO
MEETING YOU."
OH, GOD!
(Laughter)
OH!
I WAS TERRIFIED.
I SAID I'LL JUST-- LET'S JUST
BREAK IT UP NOW.
I'LL JUST GO ON.
NO, I WAS SO IN LOVE WITH THIS
WONDERFUL WOMAN, AND HER
FATHER CAME, AND SO NOW AT THE
SOFREH, HERE'S THE MOTHER,
HERE'S THE SISTER.
HERE'S THE BROTHER.
HERE'S THE WOMAN I LOVE AND
HER FATHER'S HERE, SO THERE'S
FIVE PEOPLE AND THAT'S AS
CLOSE AS I EVER GOT TO THIS
LOVELY LADY IN THAT WAY.
AND I LEARNED A LOT.
I LEARNED-- THAT'S A WHOLE
ANOTHER DISCUSSION, BUT IT WAS
VERY, A VERY RICH EXPERIENCE,
AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL FAMILY.
WELL, THIS IS TO TELL YOU--
AND I THINK THIS HAPPENS SO
OFTEN WITH WRITING-- THAT IT'S
REALLY ONE IMAGE AND ONE IMAGE
ONLY, WITHOUT WHICH THIS NOVEL
WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WRITTEN.
AND THAT IS THIS MAN, MUCH
LIKE COLONEL BEHRANI IN THE
NOVEL, WAS TRAINED IN
ENGINEERING AND WORKED VERY
HIGH-- HE WAS VERY HIGH IN THE
ECHELON OF THE SHAH'S CULTURE,
BUT HE COULD NOT FIND WORK IN
THIS COUNTRY.
AND I THINK LOOKING BACK NOW,
I THINK IT WAS AGE
DISCRIMINATION.
HE WAS ONLY IN HIS 60s, BUT I
DON'T THINK THEY WERE HIRING
ANYBODY YOUNGER THAN, YOU
KNOW, 40.
AND SO HE WORKED TWO MENIAL
JOBS 8 HOURS A DAY, 16 HOURS A
DAY, TWO SHIFTS, 16 HOURS A
DAY, SIX DAYS A WEEK.
ONE OF HIS JOBS WAS IN A SHOE
FACTORY.
I COME FROM THIS MILL TOWN IN
MASSACHUSETTS AND HE WAS
STAMPING SHOE SOLES, AND THE
OTHER WAS WORKING AT AN
ALL-NIGHT CONVENIENCE STORE
AND HE WOULD GET HOME AT
MIDNIGHT.
ONE NIGHT-- THIS IS BACK IN
19-- I GUESS '81, '80.
1980.
I WAS IN THE ELEVATOR WITH HIM
AND HE WAS BRINGING IN
GROCERIES.
HIS WIFE, VERY MUCH LIKE THE
CHARACTER IN THE BOOK, WAS
SOCIALLY ISOLATED.
SHE SPOKE VERY LITTLE ENGLISH,
AND I THINK SHE WAS DEPRESSED,
SO HE WOULD EVEN BUY GROCERIES
AFTER ALL THIS EFFORT.
WE WERE IN THIS ELEVATOR GOING
UP TO THE APARTMENT WHERE THE
FAMILY LIVED, AND ALL AROUND
HIS FEET ARE THESE GROCERIES,
AND HE LOOKS AT ME AND HE
SHAKES HIS HEAD, AND HE SAID
IN HIS FAIRLY THICK IRANIAN
ACCENT:
"YOU KNOW, ANDRE, I USED TO
WORK WITH KINGS AND QUEENS AND
PRESIDENTS AND VICE PRESIDENTS
AND PRIME MINISTERS BY
MYSELF."
HE SAID, "NOW I SERVE CANDY
AND CIGARETTES TO KIDS WHO
DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO I WAS."
IT'S INTERESTING HE USED THE
VERB THE PAST TENSE, "WAS."
AND HE KIND OF LOOKED OFF IN
THE ELEVATOR, AND HE JUST-- HE
SHOOK HIS HEAD AND HE LOOKED
VERY TIRED AND HE SAID, "I
JUST NEVER THOUGHT THAT WOULD
HAPPEN TO ME."
AND YOU GUYS, I NEVER FORGOT
IT.
I MEAN I NEVER-- I MEAN I
WASN'T EVEN WRITING THEN.
I CERTAINLY WASN'T THINKING
ABOUT TURNING THAT INTO ANY
SORT OF A PIECE OF WRITING,
ALTHOUGH WRITERS ARE A BUNCH
OF PROSTITUTES, THIEVES AND
SAVAGES.
(Laughing)
WE DO THAT ALL THE TIME.
ALDOUS HUXLEY SAID THAT
WRITERS HAVE THIS THING-- AND
I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DO.
IT MAY NOT JUST BE WRITERS.
I KNOW MY WIFE WHO'S A DANCE
CHOREOGRAPHER HAS IT.
HE CALLED IT THE HOMODUPLEX
COMPLEX.
YOU'RE IN THIS MOMENT WITH
SOMEBODY ELSE.
YOUR LOVER IS LEAVING YOU.
SHE IS SWEARING AT YOU, SWEARS
YOU'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF.
SPIT IS COMING OUT OF HER
MOUTH.
YOU'RE CRYING; SHE'S CRYING;
YOUR HEART'S BROKEN.
AND THEN UP IN YOUR HEAD
SOMEWHERE IS A LITTLE
HOMODUPLEX PART OF YOU THAT IS
MEMORIZING THAT PHRASE SHE
JUST USED, THAT SWEAR YOU'VE
NEVER HEARD IN YOUR LIFE.
SO YOU'RE CRYING.
YOU'RE ON YOUR KNEES AND YOU
THINK SCUM-BOOGER.
THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING
SWEAR.
I'LL USE THAT LATER AND YOU'RE
STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS
TERRIBLE PAINFUL THING.
(Laughter)
SO I WASN'T ABOVE HAVING THIS
HOMODUPLEXIAN MOMENT LOOKING
AT THIS MAN OLDER THAN MY
FATHER AND THINKING, WHOA,
WHAT AN INTERESTING STORY
IDEA.
BUT I WASN'T.
I WASN'T EVEN WRITING THEN.
I JUST FELT COMPASSION FOR
HILL AND I FELT LIKE SUCH A
KID, AND WHICH I WAS.
I WAS REALLY YOUNG.
BUT I ESPECIALLY FELT LIKE A
KID.
THE WORD TO REMEMBER IS A
BEAUTIFUL WORD.
IF YOU BREAK IT DOWN
ETYMOLOGICALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT
IT ACTUALLY MEANS?
THE OPPOSITE IS DISMEMBER.
CHOP, CHOP, CHOP.
TO PUT THINGS BACK TOGETHER
AGAIN.
IT'S SO POIGNANT WHEN YOU HAVE
A DISEASE THAT ROBS YOU OF
YOUR MEMORIES BECAUSE HOW CAN
YOU PUT THINGS BACK TOGETHER
AGAIN WITHOUT THEM?
I TELL YOU THIS BECAUSE I
THINK THAT-- ONE THING I KNOW
ABOUT ALL OF YOU, BECAUSE
YOU'RE HUMAN BEINGS, IS YOU
ALL HAVE IMAGINATIONS WITH
IMAGES IN THEM WHICH ARE YOUR
MEMORIES.
AND I GUARANTEE YOU, WHETHER
YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WRITING
OR NOT, AND I KNOW SOME OF YOU
ARE.
I KNOW A LOT OF YOU ARE NOT.
IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER.
I BET YOU IF YOU WENT TO ONE
OF THESE IMAGES IN YOUR HEAD--
AND USUALLY THEY'RE NOT VERY
DRAMATIC.
THEY'RE IMAGES LIKE SEEING
THIS MAN AROUND THE GROCERIES
IN THE ELEVATOR.
AND IF YOU START TO WRITE YOUR
WAY INTO THAT IMAGE, A DOOR
OPENS IN YOUR PSYCHE, AND YOU
FIND YOURSELF IN A WORLD YOU
DIDN'T KNOW WAS THERE.
SO THAT'S THE SPERM OR THE
EGG.
IT'S ONE PART OF THIS IDEA.
YEARS LATER, MUCH TO MY
SURPRISE, I FOUND MYSELF--
THAT I WAS A FICTION WRITER
AND I WAS WRITING AND
PUBLISHING, AND I HAD JUST
FINISHED WHAT TURNED INTO MY
FIRST PUBLISHED NOVEL, AND I
WAS TEACHING A WRITING CLASS.
AND I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO TEACH
A WRITING CLASS.
I HADN'T TAKEN ONE AND THIS
GUY HIRED ME TO WRITE IT AND I
DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
SO I'M FACING THESE STUDENTS
AND IT'S AN INTRO WRITING
COURSE, AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE
NEVER WRITTEN AND THEY HAVE TO
START WRITING SOMETHING.
SO I SAID, WELL, GUYS, YOU
KNOW WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS
READ THE NEWSPAPER.
I GET SO MANY GOOD IDEAS FROM
THE NEWSPAPER.
AND I HAPPEN TO HAVE A
NEWSPAPER WITH ME AND I SAID,
LOOK!
IT WAS THE " BOSTON GLOBE."
I TOOK IT OUT.
YOU KNOW THEY HAVE THESE LOCAL
NEWS BRIEFS AND NATIONAL NEWS
BRIEFS AND THESE VERY SHORT
LITTLE PARAGRAPHS: "MAN
KIDNAPS EX-WIFE, TAKES HER TO
A COMEDY CLUB IN EACH STATE
ALL THE WAY TO MARYLAND, DROPS
HER OFF AND DRIVES OFF A
BRIDGE."
I MEAN YOU READ STUFF LIKE
THIS.
IT'S RIDICULOUS.
AND YOU READ IT AND YOU THINK,
WELL, THAT'S BIZARRE.
WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?
YOU KNOW, YOU'LL TURN TO YOUR
WIFE, YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR LOVED
ONE AT THE TABLE AND YOU'LL
SAY "THAT'S WEIRD.
CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WAS THAT
LIKE?
WHAT WOULD HE GO TO COMEDY
CLUBS FOR?
WHAT A BIZARRE SCENE.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT?"
AND WHAT THE WRITER DOES OR
CAN'T STOP DOING IS WE ALL
WONDER WHAT IT'S LIKE, BUT
WHAT WE CAN'T STOP DOING IS
KEEP WONDERING WHAT IT'S LIKE.
YOU KNOW, YOU SEE HIM.
WHAT, DID HE TIE HER UP?
DID HE NOT?
WHY COMEDY CLUBS?
DID SHE GO IN WILLINGLY?
DID SHE GET UP ON STAGE?
DID HE GET UP ON STAGE?
AND YOU JUST CAN'T SHUT IT
OFF.
SO THAT DAY, IN THAT
CLASSROOM, I LOOKED AND THE
ARTICLE, THE NEWS BRIEF WAS
ABOUT A WOMAN IN NORTHERN
CALIFORNIA WHO WAS EVICTED
FROM HER HOUSE FOR FAILURE TO
PAY BACK TAXES SHE SAID SHE
DIDN'T OWE.
THE COUNTY EVICTED HER ANYWAY,
REPOSSESSED THE HOUSE AND
AUCTIONED IT OFF, AND ONLY
AFTER THAT DID THEY REALIZE
THEY'D MADE A BUREAUCRATIC
ERROR, TOOK THE WRONG HOUSE.
AND THEY NEEDED TO GIVE IT
BACK, BUT THE MAN WHO BOUGHT
IT FAIR AND SQUARE AND LEGALLY
HAD NO LEGAL PRESSURE TO SELL
IT BACK AND WASN'T SURE HE
WANTED TO, AND I THOUGHT, YOU
GUYS, THAT'S REALLY
FASCINATING.
LOOK, SHE'S LIVING IN HER CAR.
YOU GUYS SHOULD WRITES ABOUT
THAT.
ONE OF YOU GUYS SHOULD WRITE
ABOUT THAT.
THAT WOULD BE A REALLY
INTERESTING STORY.
REALLY.
ANYBODY INTERESTED?
ANYBODY GOING TO WRITE ABOUT
THAT?
THEY ALL LOOKED AT ME.
OKAY, I'LL TAKE IT.
I TOOK IT AND I CUT IT OUT,
AND I PUT IT IN THIS LITTLE
NOTEBOOK I HAVE WHERE I KEEP
ALL THESE IDEAS I SCRIBBLE,
AND ABOUT A YEAR LATER I
FINISHED WRITING SOMETHING AND
I WENT THROUGH MY IDEA
NOTEBOOK, AND I FOUND THAT
NEWSPAPER CLIPPING.
AND I READ IT AGAIN, AND I SAW
THAT THE MAN'S NAME-- THAT THE
NAME OF THE MAN WHO BOUGHT THE
HOUSE IN REAL LIFE WAS MIDDLE
EASTERN, AND I THINK IT WAS
PROBABLY ARABIC, IRAQI OR
EGYPTIAN OR SOMETHING AND NOT
PERSIAN, AND THERE'S A BIG
DIFFERENCE.
BUT I THOUGHT, WELL, WHAT IF
MY COLONEL IN THE ELEVATOR,
I'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO
FORGET, SURROUNDED BY
GROCERIES AND LOOKING SO
TIRED, WHAT IF HE BOUGHT THAT
HOUSE?
AND THAT'S HOW IT STARTED.
YOU KNOW, WILLIAM FAULKNER,
THE GREAT AMERICAN WRITER, NOT
LONG BEFORE HIS DEATH, LATE IN
HIS LIFE, LATE IN HIS CAREER
WAS ASKED IN AN INTERVIEW WHAT
HE THOUGHT A WRITER NEEDED,
ESPECIALLY A YOUNG WRITER
NEEDED IN ORDER TO CREATE
REAL-- A REAL WORK OF
LITERATURE OR ART.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT FAULKNER
SAID?
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT HE SAID.
I'LL TELL YOU.
I LOVE THIS.
HE SAID, WELL, IT'S NOT
TALENT.
ACTUALLY I'M GOING TO TURN IT
OVER TO YOU RIGHT NOW.
IF IT'S NOT TALENT, WHAT IS
IT?
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT IS YOU
NEED IF IT'S NOT TALENT?
FAULKNER SAID THAT'S NOT THE
MAIN THING YOU NEED.
SHOUT IT OUT.
WHAT DO YOU NEED?
WHAT'S THAT?
PERSEVERANCE.
HE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
PASSION.
HE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL WORD,
PASSION, BY THE WAY.
WHAT'S THAT?
>> INSIGHT.
>> Andre: WHO SAID THAT?
WHAT'S YOUR NAME?
>> ONID.
>> Andre: ONID, VERY GOOD.
TENACITY, TOO.
BUT ONID'S ON IT.
I'M GOING TO STAY WITH ONID.
ONID, EXCELLENT.
DID YOU KNOW-- DO YOU KNOW
THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT HE SAID
OR ARE YOU GUESSING?
>> I'M GUESSING.
>> Andre: ALL RIGHT.
ONID-- ACTUALLY, HE WOULD
AGREE WITH PERSEVERANCE,
TENACITY, PASSION, ALL THOSE
THINGS.
BUT INSIGHT IS THE SECOND
WORD.
WHAT HE SAID WAS CURIOSITY.
THEN HE SAID INSIGHT.
TO MULL AND TO MUSE WHY IT IS
THAT MAN DOES WHAT HE DOES,
AND IF YOU HAVE THAT, THEN
TALENT DOESN'T MAKE MUCH
DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU'VE GOT
IT OR NOT.
ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?
I BELIEVE IT.
I'LL TELL YOU, AFTER HAVING
TAUGHT WRITING CLASSES FOR
YEARS NOW, AND MAYBE THOUSANDS
OF WRITERS, I SEE A REAL
PATTERN.
I SEE THAT THE ONES WHO DON'T
REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE
DOING, WHO NEVER WOULD EVEN
THINK ABOUT WRITING A STORY--
AND IF YOU OUTLINE, I
ENCOURAGE YOU NOT TO OUTLINE
YOURS EITHER-- THAT IF THEY
JUST TRUST WHAT THEY DON'T
KNOW, THEY'LL FIND SOMETHING.
NOW THAT'S A CURIOUS THING,
RIGHT?
NOW HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?
HOW CAN YOU WRITE WHAT YOU
DON'T KNOW?
HOW CAN YOU WRITE ABOUT
SOMETHING YOU HAVEN'T LIVED
FIRSTHAND?
HERE'S WHAT I BELIEVE, YOU
GUYS.
I BELIEVE-- AND I'VE GOT
LITTLE CHILDREN.
I'M BLESSED WITH LITTLE
CHILDREN WITH MY WIFE, AND
BEING AROUND LITTLE CHILDREN
HAS CONVINCED ME OF THIS EVEN
MORE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOTHERS
ME ABOUT PUBLISHING AND
BOOK-SELLING TODAY IS THAT
OFTENTIMES YOU'LL GO TO A
LOVELY EVENT LIKE THIS AND YOU
GET THE FEELING THAT THE
WRITERS, THE IMAGINATIVE ONE
AND THE READERS ARE THE ONES
WHO BOW DOWN TO THE WRITER'S
IMAGINATION, AND IT'S A CROCK.
EVERYBODY GETS ISSUED A VIVID,
TERRIFYING, EXALTED,
MYSTERIOUS, SYMPHONIC, WILD
IMAGINATION AT BIRTH.
WE ALL GET ONE.
WRITERS, ARTISTS, ACTORS ARE
NO MORE IMAGINATIVE THAN
ANYONE ELSE, IN MY OPINION.
I THINK-- AND ACTUALLY I'M
GOING FARTHER TO SAY, TOLSTOY
SAID "ART IS TRANSFERRING
FEELING FROM ONE MAN'S HEART
TO NOWHERE."
SEE I BELIEVE THAT THE ACTUAL
TRANSMISSION OF THE BOOK, THE
CHARACTERS OF THE BOOK FROM ME
TO THE BOOK TO YOU, THE
READER, CANNOT HAPPEN IF YOUR
IMAGINATION ISN'T AS EQUALLY
WILD AND STRANGE AND
TERRIFYING AND DARK AND LIGHT
AS THE WRITER'S, IF NOT MORE
SO.
I THINK SOMETIMES THE BOOK IS
BETTER BECAUSE THE WRITER--
THE READER HAS MORE
IMAGINATION WHEN HE OR SHE
READS IT.
YEAH, I AGREE.
WE'RE NODDING HEADS TOGETHER
UP HERE.
SO LET ME TELL YOU, MARY
McCARTHY WAS AN AMERICAN
WRITER, AND SOME OF YOU READ
HER WORK I HOPE.
SHE'S A WONDERFUL WRITER.
SHE HAD GONE TO ITALY EARLY IN
HER CAREER.
SHE PUBLISHED A COUPLE OF
BOOKS.
SHE HAD A NICE REPUTATION.
SHE WENT TO ITALY BY
STEAMSHIP.
THIS IS YEARS AGO,
PRECOMPUTER.
AND SHE WENT TO ITALY, AND I
SHOULD TELL YOU BY THE WAY,
YOU GUYS, STUDIES HAVE SHOWN
THE AVERAGE NOVEL TAKES TWO TO
TEN YEARS TO WRITE.
"HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG" TOOK
ME FOUR YEARS.
MY FIRST BOOK TOOK ME
SIX-AND-A HALF.
MY SECOND TOOK ME
TWO-AND-A-HALF, AND THEN MY
FIFTH YEAR ON ANOTHER ONE.
WHEN I BEGAN WRITING "HOUSE OF
SAND AND FOG" MY WIFE WAS
PREGNANT WITH OUR FIRST CHILD,
AND WHEN I FINISHED IT, WE HAD
THREE KIDS.
THESE THINGS TAKE AWHILE.
(Chuckling)
MY POINT IS SHE GOES TO ITALY
AND SHE WRITES A VERY FAST
DRAFT.
SHE WROTE A WHOLE NOVEL IN ONE
YEAR.
THAT'S FAST.
NOT ONLY DID SHE WRITE IT
QUICKLY BUT SHE THOUGHT IT WAS
HER BEST WORK.
SHE GETS ON THE STEAMSHIP FROM
ITALY, TAKES I DON'T KNOW HOW
MANY WEEKS IT TOOK TO GET TO
NEW YORK.
SHE GETS TO NEW YORK.
THEY'RE UNLOADING HER LUGGAGE
AND HER TRUNK AND SHE SAID
"WHERE IS MY TRUNK?"
HE SAID WHAT TRUNK?
"MY TRUNK.
MY TRUNK.
MY TRUNK WITH MY NOVEL IN IT,
THE ONLY COPY OF MY NOVEL IN
IT TRUNK."
HE SAID WE DON'T HAVE YOUR
TRUNK.
THEY LOST THE TRUNK.
AND THEY NEVER FOUND IT AGAIN.
IT WAS GONE.
CAN YOU IMAGINE, OH, THE--
UGH, IT JUST-- WORSE THINGS
CAN HAPPEN TO A HUMAN BEING
BUT THAT HURTS.
SO SHE'S IN MOURNING.
I DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S WEARING
BLACK OR NOT.
SHE'S AT A COCKTAIL PARTY, AND
A MAN COMES UP TO HER AND
SAYS, YOU KNOW, Ms. McCARTHY,
I KNOW IT'S A TERRIBLE THING,
YOU KNOW, THEY LOST YOUR BOOK,
BUT, COME ON, WHAT'S THE BIG
DEAL?
IT'S YOUR BOOK.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST WRITE IT
OVER AGAIN?
YOU KNOW WHAT SHE SAID?
SHE SHOOK HER HEAD.
SHE SAID "OH, NO.
I COULD NEVER DO THAT.
I KNOW HOW IT ENDS."
ISN'T THAT INTERESTING?
E.M. FORSTER, THE GREAT
BRITISH NOVELIST SAID, "HOW DO
I KNOW WHAT I THINK UNTIL I
SAY IT?"
RIGHT?
THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU GO TO A
MOVIE.
YOU SEE A MOVIE.
AFTERWARDS YOU MIGHT GIVE
SOMETHING NEW WITH A FRIEND
AND YOUR FRIEND SAYS "WASN'T
THAT MOVIE GREAT?"
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOUR FACE
STARTS TO CONTORT AND YOUR
STOMACH FEELS KIND OF TENSE,
AND YOU HEAR YOURSELF SAY,
"NO.
ACTUALLY I HATED THAT MOVIE."
AND YOU'RE SURPRISED.
YOUR FRIEND SAYS, YOU DID?
WHY?
AND YOUR FIRST WORDS ARE, "I
DON'T KNOW.
JUST DID."
AND THEN YOUR FRIEND SAYS,
"BUT WHY?"
AND I SUBMIT TO YOU THAT THAT
QUESTION MARK IS SUCH A
BEAUTIFUL SCALPEL TO GET INTO
YOUR OWN PSYCHE AND YOUR OWN
SUBCONSCIOUS.
SHE SAYS WHY?
YOU SAY WELL, FIRST OF ALL,
FIRST OF ALL, FIRST OF ALL,
THE MUSIC WAS TERRIBLE.
IT WAS SO SACCHARINE.
AND THAT CAMERA, CAN'T THEY
HOLD THE CAMERA STILL TODAY?
I WAS DIZZY.
THAT WOMAN, SHE WOULD HAVE
NEVER LEFT WITH THAT GUY.
SHE HATED THAT GUY.
ACTUALLY, YOU'RE NOW WRITING
AN ANALYTICAL PAPER.
YOU'RE ACTUALLY GETTING
CRITICAL.
WE DO IT ALL THE TIME.
MY POINT, THOUGH, IS I WOULD
SUBMIT TO YOU YOU DIDN'T KNOW
ALL OF THIS UNTIL YOUR FRIEND
ASKED YOU.
SEE I BET-- YOU KNOW, I KNOW
THAT YOU KNEW I WAS COMING
TONIGHT, AND I BET YOU HAD
SOME IDEAS-- LET ME CORRECT
THAT.
I BET YOU HAD SOME IMAGES OF
WHAT TONIGHT WOULD BE.
I BET YOU IMAGINED WHERE YOU
MIGHT BE SITTING, WHO YOUR
FRIENDS MIGHT-- WHICH OF YOUR
FRIENDS MIGHT BE COMING, WHERE
THEY MIGHT BE SITTING.
YOU MIGHT IMAGINE WHAT KIND OF
PERSON I MIGHT BE OR NOT BE,
RIGHT?
I THINK WHEN WE THINK, WE'RE
NOT THINKING WORDS.
I THINK THAT THE WORDS PULL
OUT WHAT'S THERE, WHICH IS
REALLY MORE LIKE A DREAM.
SO WHY DO I TELL YOU THIS?
I TELL YOU THIS BECAUSE I'M OF
THE PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEF, AS A
WRITER, THAT IF YOU TERM-- LET
ME REPHRASE THAT.
IF YOU ALLOW WHAT'S INSIDE OF
YOU TO COME OUT IN ITS
FULLNESS WITHOUT YOUR STEERING
IT IN ANY WAY, YOU WILL BE
AMAZED AND SOMETIMES
TERRIFIED, BUT MAINLY YOU WILL
BE SURPRISED AT WHAT COMES OUT
OF YOU.
THE WRITER FLANNERY O'CONNOR
HAS A WONDERFUL ESSAY CALLED
"THE NATURE AND AIM OF
FICTION," AND IN THIS ESSAY,
EVERY LINE IS QUOTABLE.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL ESSAY;
PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE
INTERESTED IN CREATIVE WRITING
FOR YOURSELF, YOU SHOULD READ
THIS ESSAY.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS SHE SAYS
IS "OUR BELIEFS ARE NOT WHAT
WE SEE BUT THE LIGHT BY WHICH
WE SEE."
RIGHT?
I FIND MYSELF CONSTANTLY-- AT
DINNER TONIGHT, IT'S
POLITICALLY INCORRECT THESE
DAYS BUT I ALWAYS ASK PEOPLE
THEIR ETHNIC HERITAGE.
IT'S PROFOUNDLY SIGNIFICANT.
IF YOU GREW UP WHITE AND
JEWISH IN NEW YORK, THAT IS
DIFFERENT THAN GROWING UP
SCOTTISH IN-- IN-- I WANTED TO
SAY SCOTTISH AND BLACK.
THAT COULD WORK.
SCOTTISH AND BLACK IN TEXAS.
WHATEVER IT IS.
(Laughter)
THAT COULD WORK.
IT MAKES FOR A DIFFERENT HUMAN
EXPERIENCE, AND THAT'S JUST
THE BEGINNING OF THE MYSTERY
OF YOU, BUT IT'S A SIGNIFICANT
STRAND IN WHO YOU ARE.
ALL RIGHT.
SO THIS BOOK "HOUSE OF SAND
AND FOG."
I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT
MORE ABOUT THAT.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I KNOW A
LOT OF YOU HATE THE ENDING AND
I DON'T BLAME YOU.
I KNOW THAT-- I HAD A FRIEND--
I HAD A FRIEND WHO ACTUALLY
SAID, YOU KNOW, I LIKED YOUR
BOOK, BUT I HATED EVERYBODY IN
IT!
AND I KIND OF HATE YOU FOR
WRITING IT!
(Laughter)
AND I SAID, WELL, I CAN
UNDERSTAND THAT.
I CAN APPRECIATE THAT.
THE TRUTH IS WHEN I MEET
SOMEBODY WHO'S READ THE STORY
FOR THE FIRST TIME, I ALWAYS
FEEL LIKE HUGGING THEM AND
APOLOGIZING.
(Laughter)
AND I KNOW A LOT OF YOU-- I
JUST MET A FEW YOUNG PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NOT FINISHED IT YET
SO I WON'T GIVE AWAY THE
ENDING.
I'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN GENERAL
TERMS.
I KNOW IT ENDS PAINFULLY AND I
KNOW IT ENDS DARKLY.
WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU, AND I
HATE WHEN WRITERS TALK THIS
WAY BECAUSE IT SOUNDS SO
PRETENTIOUS BUT I WANT TO TRY
EXPLAINING WHAT'S BEHIND IT.
WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU AND
TRY TO CONVINCE YOU OF IS THAT
I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO LET IT
GO THE WAY IT WENT.
AND I HATE WHEN WRITERS TALK
LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS
SO, AH, JUST-- IT DOESN'T
SOUND BELIEVABLE BUT I'M GOING
TO TRY AND EXPLAIN TO YOU
TECHNICALLY HOW IT HAPPENS.
I THINK AT A CERTAIN POINT IN
THE WRITING OF A STORY, MY
FATHER THE GREAT SHORT STORY
WRITER ANDRE DUBUS ACTUALLY
HAD A BEAUTIFUL EXPRESSION.
HE SAID I'M AT THE POINT, MAN,
I'M JUST HOLDING ON TO THE
SADDLE HORN AND THE HORSE IS
GALLOPING TO THE END, AND IT'S
AN EXHILARATING FEELING
ARTISTICALLY.
BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO KNOW
IS, AS A HUMAN BEING,
ESPECIALLY AS A HUMAN BEING
WITH CHILDREN, I HATE THAT
ENDING.
IT'S SO PAINFUL.
IT HURTS.
I DON'T WISH IT ON ANY LIVING
HUMAN BEING, ALTHOUGH IT
HAPPENS UNFORTUNATELY DAILY
ACROSS THE GLOBE.
SO THEN, OKAY, ANDRE, FINE.
SO THEN WHY DID YOU WRITE THAT
WAY?
WELL, WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU
IS, AT A CERTAIN POINT IT
BECOMES MORE CO-OPERATING WITH
THE THING THAN STEERING IT.
I'LL TRY AND EXPLAIN THAT
TECHNICALLY.
I'M GOING TO TRIAL AND
DEMYSTIFY IT AND TRY AND
DEMYSTIFY HOW I THINK IT
HAPPENS THAT THE STORY AND THE
CHARACTERS ACTUALLY TAKE ON A
LIFE OF THEIR OWN, BUT I DON'T
WANT TO DEMYSTIFY THE PROCESS
ITSELF, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
YOU CAN DEMYSTIFY IT.
WE ALL KNOW HOW BABIES ARE
MADE.
WE ALL KNOW THE BIOLOGY OF ALL
OF THAT.
WE KNOW ABOUT ZYGOTES AND
EMBRYOS AND GESTATION, ALL
THAT.
BUT WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY
WE'RE HERE.
WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE
ALIVE, WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO
BE DOING HERE.
I DON'T ANYWAY.
IF THERE'S A LIFE AFTER DEATH.
IT'S STILL A BIG MYSTERY.
EVEN FOR THE GREATEST THINKERS
OF ALL TIME, RIGHT?
THE WRITER RON CARLSON SAID:
"THE DETAILS ARE FOR THE
WRITER ONLY.
THEY ARE THE INSTRUMENTS BY
WHICH WE STEER."
THEY ARE THE INSTRUMENTS BY
WHICH WE STEER.
HE GOES ON TO QUOTE
CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN WRITER
ROBERT BOSWELL, A WONDERFUL
WRITER, WHO SAYS: "THE REASON
IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT
IS SUCH A USELESS SENTENCE, IS
NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A
CLICHE, BUT BECAUSE IT GIVES
THE WRITER NOTHING TO WORK
WITH."
MANY BEGINNING WRITERS-- AND I
SAY BEGINNING IN THE FIRST TEN
TO FIFTEEN YEARS OF WRITING
WHO ARE IN THE BEGINNING
LEVEL-- WE TEND TO THINK THAT
DETAILS ARE JUST A GARNISH ON
THE PLATE, RIGHT?
YOU WORK IN A RESTAURANT.
YOU GET THE LITTLE CRUET OF
TOMATO AND A LITTLE PARSLEY--
I'VE WORKED IN A LOT OF
RESTAURANTS-- AND LINEN AND
YOU THINK, I'LL PUT IN THE
DETAILS LATER.
NO!
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT THEM IN
LATER.
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT THEM IN
LATER.
NOW LET ME EXPLAIN.
BOSWELL SAID "BECAUSE IT GIVES
A WRITER NOTHING TO WORK
WITH."
HE WENT ON TO SAY, "IF YOU SAY
LIGHTNING HIT THE FENCE
POST--" NO, I'M SORRY.
HE SAID INSTEAD OF IT WAS A
DARK AND STORMY NIGHT, IF YOU
SAY OR WRITE INSTEAD:
"LIGHTNING HIT THE FENCE
POST," HE SAID NOW YOU HAVE A
CHARRED PIECE OF WOOD TO WORK
WITH.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
GOOD.
THANKS FOR BEING HONEST.
NO, I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.
WHAT THE HELL'S THAT MEAN?
(Laughter)
I'LL GO ON.
YOU'RE WRITING FROM THE POINT
OF VIEW OF SOMEBODY, MALE OR
FEMALE.
I LOVE THAT.
PLEASE CONTINUE WITH THAT.
WE'RE WRITING ALONG.
YOU'RE WRITING ALONG.
YOU'RE WALKING DOWN THE
STREET.
LIGHTNING HITS THE FENCE POST.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, ONE
CHARACTER-- THIS IS WHERE IT
GETS MYSTERIOUS.
ONE CHARACTER IS GOING TO KEEP
ON WALKING.
ANOTHER CHARACTER IS GOING TO
WALK OVER AND PICK UP THAT
PIECE OF CHARRED WOOD.
ERNEST HEMINGWAY HAD A GREAT
LINE.
HE SAID, "EVERY WRITER NEEDS A
BUILT-IN SHOCKPROOF SHIT
DETECTOR."
(Laughter)
NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS SWEAR,
TOO, YOU KNOW.
AND I THINK WHAT HE MEANS-- I
THINK HE'S TALKING ABOUT THAT
WE ALL HAVE ONE, BY THE WAY.
WE ALL HAVE ONE, ESPECIALLY
KIDS, YOUNG KIDS; AND ONE THAT
KNOWS WHETHER TO GET IN THE
LINE OF BULL OR NOT.
THE ONE THAT KNOWS ALSO THIS
IS THE TRUTH OR NOT WHATEVER
THAT IS.
YOU GET A Ph.D. IN THAT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT, TOO, IF
WE CAN.
SO YOU'RE WRITING FROM THE
POINT OF VIEW OF A CHARACTER.
IF YOUR SHIT DETECTOR DOESN'T
GO OFF IF THE CHARACTER PICKS
UP A PIECE OF WOOD, I KEEP
WRITING.
I BELIEVE HE PICKED IT UP.
ESPECIALLY ON SUCCESSIVE DAYS
OF WRITING THAT SCENE.
IF I STILL BELIEVE IT.
OKAY, I BELIEVE HE DID IT.
KEEP GOING.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS, YOU GUYS, IF
A GUY OR WOMAN PICKS UP A
CHARRED PIECE OF WOOD?
WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR HANDS?
HE'S GOING TO GET THEM BLACK.
SO NOW YOU'VE GOT SOOT ON YOUR
HANDS AND YOU'RE WRITING AND
WRITING.
HE'S WALKING DOWN.
OH, AND THERE'S A HOUSE WITH
LIGHT COMING THROUGH THE
WINDOW.
AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOUR
CHARACTER IS A LITTLE
FASTIDIOUS AND DOESN'T LIKE
HAVING DIRTY HANDS SO HE DROPS
THE WOOD AND BEFORE YOU KNOW
IT YOUR CHARACTER'S KNOCKING
ON THE DOOR OF THE HOUSE WITH
THE LIGHT IN IT.
AND A LADY ANSWERS IN AN
APRON.
AND SHE LOOKS AT HIM STANDING
THERE WITH HIS BLACK
SOOT-COVERED HAND.
ONE CHARACTER, MARGINAL OR
NOT, HE'S GOING TO INVITES HIM
IN TO WASH HIS HANDS.
ANOTHER'S GOING TO SLAM THE
DOOR IN HIS FACE.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST
ARBITRARY.
I THINK THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUE
MOMENT THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THAT
SCENE.
AND THIS IS WHY I THINK
WRITING TAKES SO DAMN LONG.
IT DOES FOR ME.
I THINK ONE REASON WRITING
TAKES SO LONG IS YOU CUT SO
MUCH.
WILLA CATHER SAID, "ARTISTIC
GROWTH--" I LOVE THIS:
"ARTISTIC GROWTH IS, IF
NOTHING ELSE, A REFINING OF
THE SENSE OF TRUTHFULNESS."
SEE, I LOVE THAT BECAUSE THAT
CAN APPLY TO THE ARC OF AN
ENTIRE CAREER; IT CAN APPLY TO
THE MULTIPLE DRAFTS OF WHICH
YOU'RE WORKING ON.
PAUL LINGO (sp?) THE WRITER
SAYS WRITING IS REWRITING WHAT
YOU'VE ALREADY WRITTEN.
WELL, IN MY BOOK YOU'VE GOT--
YOU'RE NOT WRITING AND
REWRITING AND REWRITING TO
SOUND GOOD.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE, IN MY
OPINION.
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS
CAPTURE THE TRUTH OF THESE
PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU, NOT
EVEN YOUR TRUTH.
NOT EVEN YOUR TRUTH.
AND I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER
WRITERS IN THIS ROOM AND I'D
LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEM WHEN
IT'S TIME FOR YOUR MIC TO GO
ON BECAUSE I REALLY WANTS TO
KNOW FROM YOU WHAT HAPPENS.
I'VE HAD CHARACTERS-- I'LL
GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
MY FIRST BOOK COLLECTION OF
STORIES, I HAD A CRUSH ON MY
EDITOR.
SHE WAS BEAUTIFUL AND SHE
LOVED ME AND LOVED MY BOOK.
HOW COULD I NOT LOVE HER BACK?
AND SHE WAS 95 AND I LOVED
HER.
SHE CALLED AND I HAD A CRUSH
ON HER, AND I WAS WRITING THE
LAST STORY IN THE BOOK, AND
ONE OF MY CHARACTERS USED THE
"C" WORD.
YOU KNOW IN HIGH SCHOOL THEY
USED TO SAY, "HE CALLED HER
C.U. NEXT TUESDAY."
I CAN'T SEE IT.
IF YOU'VE SEEN "VAGINA
MONOLOGUES," THERE'S A WHOLE
THING CALLED THAT.
AND MY CHARACTER WROTE THE
WORDS.
WELL, I'M NOT JUST TRYING TO
SOUND SENSITIVE AND ATTRACTIVE
TO YOU.
I DON'T ACTUALLY USE THAT
WORD.
THERE ARE OTHER SWEARS I USE,
BUT I REALLY DON'T USE THAT
ONE.
WHEN I WROTE IT, I BELIEVED
THIS CHARACTER SAID IT SO I
HAD TO LET HIM SAY IT.
BUT AS SOON AS I WROTE IT, MY
FACE GOT HOT WITH SHAME AND MY
FIRST THOUGHT WAS, OH!
LESLIE MIGHT GET MAD AT ME.
WILL I OFFEND LESLIE?
WILL SHE THINK I CALL WOMEN
THAT WORD?
IT WAS A TERRIBLE MOMENT OF
HACK WRITING, WHERE I WAS
COMPLETELY OUT OF THE MOMENT
AND THINKING ABOUT HOW MY
WRITING WILL AFFECT SOMEBODY
ELSE, WHICH IS WHEN YOU'RE OUT
OF IT.
HOW MANY OF YOU PLAY A MUSICAL
INSTRUMENT OR PERFORM OR ACT
OR DO ANYTHING ON STAGE?
A LOT OF YOU.
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE BEING IN
THE MOMENT, RIGHT?
LAUREN, IS THAT YOUR NAME?
RIGHT.
YOU'RE ON STAGE.
WE'RE DOING OUR SCENE.
WE'RE DOING OUR SCENE.
WE KNOW OUR LINES SO WELL,
WE'RE NOT EVEN THINKING.
WE ARE THOSE PEOPLE.
WE'RE NOT PRETENDING TO BE.
WE ARE THEM.
THE REASON DIRECTORS DON'T
TELL ACTORS WHEN THE CREDITS
PARTICULAR IS IN THE AUDIENCE,
RIGHT, IS WHY?
SO THEY DON'T GET
SELF-CONSCIOUS, RIGHT?
SO WHAT IF I'M GOING LIKE THIS
AND I REALIZE, OH, SO AND SO
FROM "THE TIMES" IS HERE AND
HE HATES WHEN ACTORS POINTS
AND I'M POINTING.
ANDRE'S DYING UP HERE!
I'M NO LONGER THIS GUY ANY
MORE.
I'M NOW ANDRE WORRIED ABOUT
HIS ACTING PERFORMANCE, AND
I'M NOT IN THE MOMENT.
THERE'S A GREAT LINE FROM
NADINE GORDIMER'S NOVEL, "MY
SON'S STORY," WHERE SHE
DEFINES SINCERITY AS NEVER
HAVING AN IDEA OF ONESELF.
SO BACK UP TO THIS WHOLE
THING.
THE DETAILS ARE THE
INSTRUMENTS BY WHICH WE STEER.
IF BEHIND US, INSTEAD OF A
SCREEN, THERE'S THIS WIDE
PICTURE WINDOW AND NOONTIME OR
2 IN THE AFTERNOON, AUGUST SUN
IS SHINING IN ALL OF YOUR
FACES AND YOU'RE ALL SQUINTING
AT ME LIKE THIS, LIKE THIS,
AND I FORGET ABOUT THE SUN,
AND I'M JUST LOOKING AT ALL
THESE PEOPLE SQUINTING AT ME.
I'M THINKING DID I JUST SWEAR?
DID I ACTUALLY SAY THE "C"
WORD?
DID I OFFENDS THEM ALL?
AM I SPEAKING SWEDISH?
WHY ARE THEY SQUINTING?
BUT I FORGOT ABOUT THE SUN.
THAT ONE CENTRAL DETAIL, THAT
ONE DETAIL CAN COMPLETELY
CHANGE THE TRUTH OF THE SCENE.
BY BRINGING IT IN, THIS GUY,
THIS CHARACTER MAY NOW DO A
SONG AND DANCE ACT, OR HE
MIGHT GET ANGRY AND START
SWEARING AT THE AUDIENCE,
DEPENDING ON WHO THE CHARACTER
IS.
ALL RIGHT.
"HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG" AND
I'LL TALK GENERALLY ABOUT IT
BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF YOU
HAVEN'T FINISHED IT AND I
DON'T WANT TO GIVE AWAY THE
ENDING.
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS GUY
LESTER BURDON WAS GOING TO BE
IN THIS STORY.
AND WHEN KATHY PULLS UP TO HER
STORAGE LOCKER-- OH, WHEN
SHE'S AT HER STORAGE LOCKER
AND HE'S THERE WITH A
FLASHLIGHT AND SHE'S WONDERING
WHAT HE'S DOING THERE, I ALSO
WONDERED WHAT HE WAS DOING
THERE.
IT'S A VERY STRANGE THING.
IN THE DATE SCENE, WHEN HE
TELLS HER ABOUT BUSTING THE
WIFE BEATER, I DIDN'T KNOW HE
WAS THAT KIND OF GUY UNTIL HE
SAID IT, AND THEN I BELIEVED
IT AND THEN YOU HAVE TO ALLOW
THAT CHANGE TO INFORM YOUR
NEXT SCENE AND THE NEXT AND
THE NEXT.
AND WHEN YOU DO THAT, BEFORE
YOU KNOW IT, YOU KNOW ALL YOU
GUYS, IT'S LIKE HAVING KIDS.
I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF
PARENTS IN THE ROOM AND I KNOW
A LOT OF YOU HAVEN'T HAD KIDS
YET, AND I WISH IT ON YOU
BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BEAUTIFUL
BLESSING.
MY YOUNGEST SON, ELIAS, HAS
BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES.
MY WIFE'S GREEK AND DARK SO I
DON'T KNOW WHY HE LOOKS THAT
WAY, BUT I'M GOING TO LOVE HIM
LIKE MY OWN.
(Laughter)
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S
GENETICALLY POSSIBLE.
I DO LOVE THIS CHILD MORE THAN
MY OWN LIFE.
HE'S HUGE!
I MEAN I DON'T-- HE'S NOT FAT
HUGE.
HE'S JUST A BIG GUY.
WHEN HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD HE
WEIGHED LIKE 50 POUNDS.
YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW HE'S
SEVEN.
HE WEIGHS ALMOST 80 POUNDS AND
HE HAS THIS LITTLE TINY
SIX-PACK AND LITTLE MUSCLES.
ACTUALLY HIS TEACHERS CALL HIM
"A CHICK MAGNET," WHICH IS
KIND OF CUTE AT SEVEN.
(Laughter)
BUT WHEN HE WAS-- I REMEMBER
HE WAS LIKE 18 MONTHS.
HE HAD BEEN WALKING FOR
ALREADY EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.
HE WALKS OVER-- IN OUR HOUSE,
WE HAD A VACUUM CLEANER, THE
YOU KNOW THE VERY HEAVY KIND
WITH A HEAVY HANDLE.
HE WALKS OVER IN HIS LITTLE
DIAPERS, SQUATS DOWN, GRABS
THE HANDLE AND AUGH, PICKS IT
UP.
I SAID, HONEY, THIS GUY'S
GOING TO BE HUGE!
THE DOCTOR SAYS HE MIGHT BE
SIX-FIVE, 280.
GET OUT!
SO I'M THINKING I MIGHT HAVE
AN NFL FOOTBALL PLAYER IN MY
FAMILY.
I MIGHT HAVE A BIG GUY FOR
ONCE IN MY FAMILY.
WOULDN'T THAT BE COOL IF MY
SON PLAY PLAYED FOOTBALL?
I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO PLAY
FOOTBALL.
ONE DAY I WAS SHOWING A
PICTURE OF MY KIDS TO A FRIEND
OF MINE AND I WAS DESCRIBING
ELIAS.
HE'S ALSO GOT OTHER QUALITIES
OF COURSE BUT I WAS TALKING
ABOUT HOW STRONG HE IS.
YOU KNOW, HE MIGHT BE A
FOOTBALL PLAYER.
YOU NEVER KNOW.
HE COULD BE A BIG GUY, BIG
ATHLETES.
HE COULD BE, YOU KNOW.
AND THEN I LOOKED, AND IN THE
PICTURE HE'S JUST GOT SHORTS
ON.
HE'S ALL BLONDES AND TANNED,
AND I LOOK AND I LOOK ON HIS
SHOES.
HE'S WEARING HIS SISTER'S
BARBIE HIGH HEELS.
(Laughter)
I SAID, OKAY.
WELL, MAYBE HE WON'T BE A
FOOTBALL PLAYER.
HE MIGHT BE A FOOTBALL PLAYER,
BUT...
(Laughter)
I TELL YOU THIS BECAUSE I
THINK THE SAME WAY THAT YOU
CANNOT CONTROL YOUR CHILDREN,
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND THEY
DON'T BELONG TO THE PARENTS.
THEY'RE NOT OUR POSSESSIONS.
WE'RE JUST THEIR GUARDIANS.
HOPEFULLY WE'RE GOING TO
NURTURE THEM AND MAKE THEM
STRONG AND LOVING HUMAN BEINGS
AND WISH THEM WELL AS THEY GO
OFF IN THIS HARD WORLD BUT
THEY'RE NOT OURS.
AND IN THE SAME WAY PARENTS
AREN'T OURS EITHER.
I THINK MIKE NICHOLS REALLY
DID IT WELL.
MIKE NICHOLS, THE FILM
DIRECTOR, YOU KNOW, WHO DID
"THE GRADUATE" AND "SILKWOOD"
AND "PRIMARY COLORS."
HE'S ASKED IN AN INTERVIEW BY,
WHO WAS IT, CHARLIE ROSE:
"Mr. NICHOLS, WHAT'S THE MAIN
QUESTION THE STORYTELLER
ASKS?"
AND NICHOLS SAID, "WELL, IT'S
NOT THE MAIN QUESTION THE
NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS."
SO YOU GUYS, I'M GOING TO ASK
YOU NOW.
ONID, RIGHT?
ONID, WHAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION
THE NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS?
I SHOULDN'T PUT YOU ON THE
SPOT LIKE THAT.
WHAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION THE
NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS?
>> WHY?
>> Andre: HIM OR HERSELF.
EVEN BEFORE THAT.
WHAT'S THAT?
YEAH, WHO, WHAT, WHERE.
ALL THOSE W's, BUT ESPECIALLY
WHAT?
WHAT HAPPENED?
AT 11:05 p.m. A WOMAN WENT
THROUGH THE TRAFFIC LIGHT,
DROVE THROUGH THE CONVENIENCE
STORE WINDOW AND KNOCKED OVER
THE SLIM JIMS, RIGHT?
THAT'S THE "WHAT."
BUT WHAT NICHOLS SAID, BUT
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE
STORYTELLER ASKS HIM OR
HERSELF WHEN WRITING A STORY.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE
FAMOUS-- THE THING THE FAMOUS
STORYTELLER ASKS US?
HOW?
CLOSE.
CLOSE.
WHO?
CLOSE.
>> WHAT FOR?
>> Andre: WHAT FOR?
>> WHAT FOR?
>> Andre: NO.
CLOSE.
I LOVE IT, YOU GUYS.
I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOUR
MINDS.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL ADJUSTMENT,
VERY ELEGANT ADJUSTMENT, HE
SAID.
NICHOLS SAID THE FAMOUS
STORYTELLER ASKED IS NOT "WHAT
HAPPENED" BUT "WHAT'S IT
LIKE?"
WHAT'S IT REALLY LIKE TO BE IN
THIS THING THAT'S HAPPENED?
RIGHT?
AND THAT'S WHEN THE BUILT-IN
SHOCKPROOF SHIT DETECTOR COMES
IN.
REVISE ACTUALLY MEANS TO SEE
AGAIN.
AND REVISION WE OFTEN THINK,
OH, YEAH, I'VE GOT TO MAKE
THAT A SEMI COLON INSTEAD OF A
HYPHEN.
NO.
SOMETIMES REVISE IS, YOU KNOW,
Mr. TWAIN, WE LIKE "THE
ADVENTURES OF HUCKLEBERRY
FINN," BUT ARE YOU SURE
THERE'S A RIVER IN THAT STORY?
(Laughter)
THAT'S WHAT WE CALL GLOBAL
REVISION, RIGHT?
SO WHAT I'M TELLING YOU IS I
GET TO THE END OF THIS STORY.
IT TOOK ME FOUR YEARS AND I'M
IN THE THIRD YEAR OF IT, AND
IT'S ALL GOING DOWN THE TUBES,
ON A HUMAN LEVEL, AND I FELT
LIKE THAT GUY IN "PERFECT
STORM," THE METEOROLOGIST WHO
LOOKED AT THE COMPUTER SCREEN
AND HE SAID, "I'VE GOT A HIGH
PRESSURE HERE AND LOW PRESSURE
HERE AND WARM HERE AND-- MAN,
THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG, BIG
STORM!"
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS
AWARE OF WHILE I WAS WRITING
IS THAT ALL OF THESEDAYS BUT I ALWAYS ASK PEOPLE
THEIR ETHNIC HERITAGE.
IT'S PROFOUNDLY SIGNIFICANT.
IF YOU GREW UP WHITE AND
JEWISH IN NEW YORK, THAT IS
DIFFERENT THAN GROWING UP
SCOTTISH IN-- IN-- I WANTED TO
SAY SCOTTISH AND BLACK.
THAT COULD WORK.
SCOTTISH AND BLACK IN TEXAS.
WHATEVER IT IS.
(Laughter)
THAT COULD WORK.
IT MAKES FOR A DIFFERENT HUMAN
EXPERIENCE, AND THAT'S JUST
THE BEGINNING OF THE MYSTERY
OF YOU, BUT IT'S A SIGNIFICANT
STRAND IN WHO YOU ARE.
ALL RIGHT.
SO THIS BOOK "HOUSE OF SAND
AND FOG."
I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT
MORE ABOUT THAT.
I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I KNOW A
LOT OF YOU HATE THE ENDING AND
I DON'T BLAME YOU.
I KNOW THAT-- I HAD A FRIEND--
I HAD A FRIEND WHO ACTUALLY
SAID, YOU KNOW, I LIKED YOUR
BOOK, BUT I HATED EVERYBODY IN
IT!
AND I KIND OF HATE YOU FOR
WRITING IT!
(Laughter)
AND I SAID, WELL, I CAN
UNDERSTAND THAT.
I CAN APPRECIATE THAT.
THE TRUTH IS WHEN I MEET
SOMEBODY WHO'S READ THE STORY
FOR THE FIRST TIME, I ALWAYS
FEEL LIKE HUGGING THEM AND
APOLOGIZING.
(Laughter)
AND I KNOW A LOT OF YOU-- I
JUST MET A FEW YOUNG PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NOT FINISHED IT YET
SO I WON'T GIVE AWAY THE
ENDING.
I'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN GENERAL
TERMS.
I KNOW IT ENDS PAINFULLY AND I
KNOW IT ENDS DARKLY.
WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU, AND I
HATE WHEN WRITERS TALK THIS
WAY BECAUSE IT SOUNDS SO
PRETENTIOUS BUT I WANT TO TRY
EXPLAINING WHAT'S BEHIND IT.
WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU AND
TRY TO CONVINCE YOU OF IS THAT
I HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO LET IT
GO THE WAY IT WENT.
AND I HATE WHEN WRITERS TALK
LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS
SO, AH, JUST-- IT DOESN'T
SOUND BELIEVABLE BUT I'M GOING
TO TRY AND EXPLAIN TO YOU
TECHNICALLY HOW IT HAPPENS.
I THINK AT A CERTAIN POINT IN
THE WRITING OF A STORY, MY
FATHER THE GREAT SHORT STORY
WRITER ANDRE DUBUS ACTUALLY
HAD A BEAUTIFUL EXPRESSION.
HE SAID I'M AT THE POINT, MAN,
I'M JUST HOLDING ON TO THE
SADDLE HORN AND THE HORSE IS
GALLOPING TO THE END, AND IT'S
AN EXHILARATING FEELING
ARTISTICALLY.
BUT WHAT I WANT YOU TO KNOW
IS, AS A HUMAN BEING,
ESPECIALLY AS A HUMAN BEING
WITH CHILDREN, I HATE THAT
ENDING.
IT'S SO PAINFUL.
IT HURTS.
I DON'T WISH IT ON ANY LIVING
HUMAN BEING, ALTHOUGH IT
HAPPENS UNFORTUNATELY DAILY
ACROSS THE GLOBE.
SO THEN, OKAY, ANDRE, FINE.
SO THEN WHY DID YOU WRITE THAT
WAY?
WELL, WHAT I WANT TO TELL YOU
IS, AT A CERTAIN POINT IT
BECOMES MORE CO-OPERATING WITH
THE THING THAN STEERING IT.
I'LL TRY AND EXPLAIN THAT
TECHNICALLY.
I'M GOING TO TRIAL AND
DEMYSTIFY IT AND TRY AND
DEMYSTIFY HOW I THINK IT
HAPPENS THAT THE STORY AND THE
CHARACTERS ACTUALLY TAKE ON A
LIFE OF THEIR OWN, BUT I DON'T
WANT TO DEMYSTIFY THE PROCESS
ITSELF, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
YOU CAN DEMYSTIFY IT.
WE ALL KNOW HOW BABIES ARE
MADE.
WE ALL KNOW THE BIOLOGY OF ALL
OF THAT.
WE KNOW ABOUT ZYGOTES AND
EMBRYOS AND GESTATION, ALL
THAT.
BUT WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY
WE'RE HERE.
WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE
ALIVE, WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO
BE DOING HERE.
I DON'T ANYWAY.
IF THERE'S A LIFE AFTER DEATH.
IT'S STILL A BIG MYSTERY.
EVEN FOR THE GREATEST THINKERS
OF ALL TIME, RIGHT?
THE WRITER RON CARLSON SAID:
"THE DETAILS ARE FOR THE
WRITER ONLY.
THEY ARE THE INSTRUMENTS BY
WHICH WE STEER."
THEY ARE THE INSTRUMENTS BY
WHICH WE STEER.
HE GOES ON TO QUOTE
CONTEMPORARY AMERICAN WRITER
ROBERT BOSWELL, A WONDERFUL
WRITER, WHO SAYS: "THE REASON
IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT
IS SUCH A USELESS SENTENCE, IS
NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A
CLICHE, BUT BECAUSE IT GIVES
THE WRITER NOTHING TO WORK
WITH."
MANY BEGINNING WRITERS-- AND I
SAY BEGINNING IN THE FIRST TEN
TO FIFTEEN YEARS OF WRITING
WHO ARE IN THE BEGINNING
LEVEL-- WE TEND TO THINK THAT
DETAILS ARE JUST A GARNISH ON
THE PLATE, RIGHT?
YOU WORK IN A RESTAURANT.
YOU GET THE LITTLE CRUET OF
TOMATO AND A LITTLE PARSLEY--
I'VE WORKED IN A LOT OF
RESTAURANTS-- AND LINEN AND
YOU THINK, I'LL PUT IN THE
DETAILS LATER.
NO!
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT THEM IN
LATER.
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT THEM IN
LATER.
NOW LET ME EXPLAIN.
BOSWELL SAID "BECAUSE IT GIVES
A WRITER NOTHING TO WORK
WITH."
HE WENT ON TO SAY, "IF YOU SAY
LIGHTNING HIT THE FENCE
POST--" NO, I'M SORRY.
HE SAID INSTEAD OF IT WAS A
DARK AND STORMY NIGHT, IF YOU
SAY OR WRITE INSTEAD:
"LIGHTNING HIT THE FENCE
POST," HE SAID NOW YOU HAVE A
CHARRED PIECE OF WOOD TO WORK
WITH.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
GOOD.
THANKS FOR BEING HONEST.
NO, I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE.
WHAT THE HELL'S THAT MEAN?
(Laughter)
I'LL GO ON.
YOU'RE WRITING FROM THE POINT
OF VIEW OF SOMEBODY, MALE OR
FEMALE.
I LOVE THAT.
PLEASE CONTINUE WITH THAT.
WE'RE WRITING ALONG.
YOU'RE WRITING ALONG.
YOU'RE WALKING DOWN THE
STREET.
LIGHTNING HITS THE FENCE POST.
FOR WHATEVER REASON, ONE
CHARACTER-- THIS IS WHERE IT
GETS MYSTERIOUS.
ONE CHARACTER IS GOING TO KEEP
ON WALKING.
ANOTHER CHARACTER IS GOING TO
WALK OVER AND PICK UP THAT
PIECE OF CHARRED WOOD.
ERNEST HEMINGWAY HAD A GREAT
LINE.
HE SAID, "EVERY WRITER NEEDS A
BUILT-IN SHOCKPROOF SHIT
DETECTOR."
(Laughter)
NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS SWEAR,
TOO, YOU KNOW.
AND I THINK WHAT HE MEANS-- I
THINK HE'S TALKING ABOUT THAT
WE ALL HAVE ONE, BY THE WAY.
WE ALL HAVE ONE, ESPECIALLY
KIDS, YOUNG KIDS; AND ONE THAT
KNOWS WHETHER TO GET IN THE
LINE OF BULL OR NOT.
THE ONE THAT KNOWS ALSO THIS
IS THE TRUTH OR NOT WHATEVER
THAT IS.
YOU GET A Ph.D. IN THAT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT, TOO, IF
WE CAN.
SO YOU'RE WRITING FROM THE
POINT OF VIEW OF A CHARACTER.
IF YOUR SHIT DETECTOR DOESN'T
GO OFF IF THE CHARACTER PICKS
UP A PIECE OF WOOD, I KEEP
WRITING.
I BELIEVE HE PICKED IT UP.
ESPECIALLY ON SUCCESSIVE DAYS
OF WRITING THAT SCENE.
IF I STILL BELIEVE IT.
OKAY, I BELIEVE HE DID IT.
KEEP GOING.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS, YOU GUYS, IF
A GUY OR WOMAN PICKS UP A
CHARRED PIECE OF WOOD?
WHAT HAPPENS TO THEIR HANDS?
HE'S GOING TO GET THEM BLACK.
SO NOW YOU'VE GOT SOOT ON YOUR
HANDS AND YOU'RE WRITING AND
WRITING.
HE'S WALKING DOWN.
OH, AND THERE'S A HOUSE WITH
LIGHT COMING THROUGH THE
WINDOW.
AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, YOUR
CHARACTER IS A LITTLE
FASTIDIOUS AND DOESN'T LIKE
HAVING DIRTY HANDS SO HE DROPS
THE WOOD AND BEFORE YOU KNOW
IT YOUR CHARACTER'S KNOCKING
ON THE DOOR OF THE HOUSE WITH
THE LIGHT IN IT.
AND A LADY ANSWERS IN AN
APRON.
AND SHE LOOKS AT HIM STANDING
THERE WITH HIS BLACK
SOOT-COVERED HAND.
ONE CHARACTER, MARGINAL OR
NOT, HE'S GOING TO INVITES HIM
IN TO WASH HIS HANDS.
ANOTHER'S GOING TO SLAM THE
DOOR IN HIS FACE.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST
ARBITRARY.
I THINK THERE'S ONLY ONE TRUE
MOMENT THAT CAN HAPPEN IN THAT
SCENE.
AND THIS IS WHY I THINK
WRITING TAKES SO DAMN LONG.
IT DOES FOR ME.
I THINK ONE REASON WRITING
TAKES SO LONG IS YOU CUT SO
MUCH.
WILLA CATHER SAID, "ARTISTIC
GROWTH--" I LOVE THIS:
"ARTISTIC GROWTH IS, IF
NOTHING ELSE, A REFINING OF
THE SENSE OF TRUTHFULNESS."
SEE, I LOVE THAT BECAUSE THAT
CAN APPLY TO THE ARC OF AN
ENTIRE CAREER; IT CAN APPLY TO
THE MULTIPLE DRAFTS OF WHICH
YOU'RE WORKING ON.
PAUL LINGO (sp?) THE WRITER
SAYS WRITING IS REWRITING WHAT
YOU'VE ALREADY WRITTEN.
WELL, IN MY BOOK YOU'VE GOT--
YOU'RE NOT WRITING AND
REWRITING AND REWRITING TO
SOUND GOOD.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE, IN MY
OPINION.
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO IS
CAPTURE THE TRUTH OF THESE
PEOPLE IN FRONT OF YOU, NOT
EVEN YOUR TRUTH.
NOT EVEN YOUR TRUTH.
AND I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER
WRITERS IN THIS ROOM AND I'D
LIKE TO HEAR FROM THEM WHEN
IT'S TIME FOR YOUR MIC TO GO
ON BECAUSE I REALLY WANTS TO
KNOW FROM YOU WHAT HAPPENS.
I'VE HAD CHARACTERS-- I'LL
GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
MY FIRST BOOK COLLECTION OF
STORIES, I HAD A CRUSH ON MY
EDITOR.
SHE WAS BEAUTIFUL AND SHE
LOVED ME AND LOVED MY BOOK.
HOW COULD I NOT LOVE HER BACK?
AND SHE WAS 95 AND I LOVED
HER.
SHE CALLED AND I HAD A CRUSH
ON HER, AND I WAS WRITING THE
LAST STORY IN THE BOOK, AND
ONE OF MY CHARACTERS USED THE
"C" WORD.
YOU KNOW IN HIGH SCHOOL THEY
USED TO SAY, "HE CALLED HER
C.U. NEXT TUESDAY."
I CAN'T SEE IT.
IF YOU'VE SEEN "VAGINA
MONOLOGUES," THERE'S A WHOLE
THING CALLED THAT.
AND MY CHARACTER WROTE THE
WORDS.
WELL, I'M NOT JUST TRYING TO
SOUND SENSITIVE AND ATTRACTIVE
TO YOU.
I DON'T ACTUALLY USE THAT
WORD.
THERE ARE OTHER SWEARS I USE,
BUT I REALLY DON'T USE THAT
ONE.
WHEN I WROTE IT, I BELIEVED
THIS CHARACTER SAID IT SO I
HAD TO LET HIM SAY IT.
BUT AS SOON AS I WROTE IT, MY
FACE GOT HOT WITH SHAME AND MY
FIRST THOUGHT WAS, OH!
LESLIE MIGHT GET MAD AT ME.
WILL I OFFEND LESLIE?
WILL SHE THINK I CALL WOMEN
THAT WORD?
IT WAS A TERRIBLE MOMENT OF
HACK WRITING, WHERE I WAS
COMPLETELY OUT OF THE MOMENT
AND THINKING ABOUT HOW MY
WRITING WILL AFFECT SOMEBODY
ELSE, WHICH IS WHEN YOU'RE OUT
OF IT.
HOW MANY OF YOU PLAY A MUSICAL
INSTRUMENT OR PERFORM OR ACT
OR DO ANYTHING ON STAGE?
A LOT OF YOU.
YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE BEING IN
THE MOMENT, RIGHT?
LAUREN, IS THAT YOUR NAME?
RIGHT.
YOU'RE ON STAGE.
WE'RE DOING OUR SCENE.
WE'RE DOING OUR SCENE.
WE KNOW OUR LINES SO WELL,
WE'RE NOT EVEN THINKING.
WE ARE THOSE PEOPLE.
WE'RE NOT PRETENDING TO BE.
WE ARE THEM.
THE REASON DIRECTORS DON'T
TELL ACTORS WHEN THE CREDITS
PARTICULAR IS IN THE AUDIENCE,
RIGHT, IS WHY?
SO THEY DON'T GET
SELF-CONSCIOUS, RIGHT?
SO WHAT IF I'M GOING LIKE THIS
AND I REALIZE, OH, SO AND SO
FROM "THE TIMES" IS HERE AND
HE HATES WHEN ACTORS POINTS
AND I'M POINTING.
ANDRE'S DYING UP HERE!
I'M NO LONGER THIS GUY ANY
MORE.
I'M NOW ANDRE WORRIED ABOUT
HIS ACTING PERFORMANCE, AND
I'M NOT IN THE MOMENT.
THERE'S A GREAT LINE FROM
NADINE GORDIMER'S NOVEL, "MY
SON'S STORY," WHERE SHE
DEFINES SINCERITY AS NEVER
HAVING AN IDEA OF ONESELF.
SO BACK UP TO THIS WHOLE
THING.
THE DETAILS ARE THE
INSTRUMENTS BY WHICH WE STEER.
IF BEHIND US, INSTEAD OF A
SCREEN, THERE'S THIS WIDE
PICTURE WINDOW AND NOONTIME OR
2 IN THE AFTERNOON, AUGUST SUN
IS SHINING IN ALL OF YOUR
FACES AND YOU'RE ALL SQUINTING
AT ME LIKE THIS, LIKE THIS,
AND I FORGET ABOUT THE SUN,
AND I'M JUST LOOKING AT ALL
THESE PEOPLE SQUINTING AT ME.
I'M THINKING DID I JUST SWEAR?
DID I ACTUALLY SAY THE "C"
WORD?
DID I OFFENDS THEM ALL?
AM I SPEAKING SWEDISH?
WHY ARE THEY SQUINTING?
BUT I FORGOT ABOUT THE SUN.
THAT ONE CENTRAL DETAIL, THAT
ONE DETAIL CAN COMPLETELY
CHANGE THE TRUTH OF THE SCENE.
BY BRINGING IT IN, THIS GUY,
THIS CHARACTER MAY NOW DO A
SONG AND DANCE ACT, OR HE
MIGHT GET ANGRY AND START
SWEARING AT THE AUDIENCE,
DEPENDING ON WHO THE CHARACTER
IS.
ALL RIGHT.
"HOUSE OF SAND AND FOG" AND
I'LL TALK GENERALLY ABOUT IT
BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF YOU
HAVEN'T FINISHED IT AND I
DON'T WANT TO GIVE AWAY THE
ENDING.
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS GUY
LESTER BURDON WAS GOING TO BE
IN THIS STORY.
AND WHEN KATHY PULLS UP TO HER
STORAGE LOCKER-- OH, WHEN
SHE'S AT HER STORAGE LOCKER
AND HE'S THERE WITH A
FLASHLIGHT AND SHE'S WONDERING
WHAT HE'S DOING THERE, I ALSO
WONDERED WHAT HE WAS DOING
THERE.
IT'S A VERY STRANGE THING.
IN THE DATE SCENE, WHEN HE
TELLS HER ABOUT BUSTING THE
WIFE BEATER, I DIDN'T KNOW HE
WAS THAT KIND OF GUY UNTIL HE
SAID IT, AND THEN I BELIEVED
IT AND THEN YOU HAVE TO ALLOW
THAT CHANGE TO INFORM YOUR
NEXT SCENE AND THE NEXT AND
THE NEXT.
AND WHEN YOU DO THAT, BEFORE
YOU KNOW IT, YOU KNOW ALL YOU
GUYS, IT'S LIKE HAVING KIDS.
I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF
PARENTS IN THE ROOM AND I KNOW
A LOT OF YOU HAVEN'T HAD KIDS
YET, AND I WISH IT ON YOU
BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BEAUTIFUL
BLESSING.
MY YOUNGEST SON, ELIAS, HAS
BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES.
MY WIFE'S GREEK AND DARK SO I
DON'T KNOW WHY HE LOOKS THAT
WAY, BUT I'M GOING TO LOVE HIM
LIKE MY OWN.
(Laughter)
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S
GENETICALLY POSSIBLE.
I DO LOVE THIS CHILD MORE THAN
MY OWN LIFE.
HE'S HUGE!
I MEAN I DON'T-- HE'S NOT FAT
HUGE.
HE'S JUST A BIG GUY.
WHEN HE WAS THREE YEARS OLD HE
WEIGHED LIKE 50 POUNDS.
YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW HE'S
SEVEN.
HE WEIGHS ALMOST 80 POUNDS AND
HE HAS THIS LITTLE TINY
SIX-PACK AND LITTLE MUSCLES.
ACTUALLY HIS TEACHERS CALL HIM
"A CHICK MAGNET," WHICH IS
KIND OF CUTE AT SEVEN.
(Laughter)
BUT WHEN HE WAS-- I REMEMBER
HE WAS LIKE 18 MONTHS.
HE HAD BEEN WALKING FOR
ALREADY EIGHT OR NINE MONTHS.
HE WALKS OVER-- IN OUR HOUSE,
WE HAD A VACUUM CLEANER, THE
YOU KNOW THE VERY HEAVY KIND
WITH A HEAVY HANDLE.
HE WALKS OVER IN HIS LITTLE
DIAPERS, SQUATS DOWN, GRABS
THE HANDLE AND AUGH, PICKS IT
UP.
I SAID, HONEY, THIS GUY'S
GOING TO BE HUGE!
THE DOCTOR SAYS HE MIGHT BE
SIX-FIVE, 280.
GET OUT!
SO I'M THINKING I MIGHT HAVE
AN NFL FOOTBALL PLAYER IN MY
FAMILY.
I MIGHT HAVE A BIG GUY FOR
ONCE IN MY FAMILY.
WOULDN'T THAT BE COOL IF MY
SON PLAY PLAYED FOOTBALL?
I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO PLAY
FOOTBALL.
ONE DAY I WAS SHOWING A
PICTURE OF MY KIDS TO A FRIEND
OF MINE AND I WAS DESCRIBING
ELIAS.
HE'S ALSO GOT OTHER QUALITIES
OF COURSE BUT I WAS TALKING
ABOUT HOW STRONG HE IS.
YOU KNOW, HE MIGHT BE A
FOOTBALL PLAYER.
YOU NEVER KNOW.
HE COULD BE A BIG GUY, BIG
ATHLETES.
HE COULD BE, YOU KNOW.
AND THEN I LOOKED, AND IN THE
PICTURE HE'S JUST GOT SHORTS
ON.
HE'S ALL BLONDES AND TANNED,
AND I LOOK AND I LOOK ON HIS
SHOES.
HE'S WEARING HIS SISTER'S
BARBIE HIGH HEELS.
(Laughter)
I SAID, OKAY.
WELL, MAYBE HE WON'T BE A
FOOTBALL PLAYER.
HE MIGHT BE A FOOTBALL PLAYER,
BUT...
(Laughter)
I TELL YOU THIS BECAUSE I
THINK THE SAME WAY THAT YOU
CANNOT CONTROL YOUR CHILDREN,
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE
WHATEVER YOU HAVE AND THEY
DON'T BELONG TO THE PARENTS.
THEY'RE NOT OUR POSSESSIONS.
WE'RE JUST THEIR GUARDIANS.
HOPEFULLY WE'RE GOING TO
NURTURE THEM AND MAKE THEM
STRONG AND LOVING HUMAN BEINGS
AND WISH THEM WELL AS THEY GO
OFF IN THIS HARD WORLD BUT
THEY'RE NOT OURS.
AND IN THE SAME WAY PARENTS
AREN'T OURS EITHER.
I THINK MIKE NICHOLS REALLY
DID IT WELL.
MIKE NICHOLS, THE FILM
DIRECTOR, YOU KNOW, WHO DID
"THE GRADUATE" AND "SILKWOOD"
AND "PRIMARY COLORS."
HE'S ASKED IN AN INTERVIEW BY,
WHO WAS IT, CHARLIE ROSE:
"Mr. NICHOLS, WHAT'S THE MAIN
QUESTION THE STORYTELLER
ASKS?"
AND NICHOLS SAID, "WELL, IT'S
NOT THE MAIN QUESTION THE
NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS."
SO YOU GUYS, I'M GOING TO ASK
YOU NOW.
ONID, RIGHT?
ONID, WHAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION
THE NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS?
I SHOULDN'T PUT YOU ON THE
SPOT LIKE THAT.
WHAT'S THE MAIN QUESTION THE
NEWSPAPER REPORTER ASKS?
>> WHY?
>> Andre: HIM OR HERSELF.
EVEN BEFORE THAT.
WHAT'S THAT?
YEAH, WHO, WHAT, WHERE.
ALL THOSE W's, BUT ESPECIALLY
WHAT?
WHAT HAPPENED?
AT 11:05 p.m. A WOMAN WENT
THROUGH THE TRAFFIC LIGHT,
DROVE THROUGH THE CONVENIENCE
STORE WINDOW AND KNOCKED OVER
THE SLIM JIMS, RIGHT?
THAT'S THE "WHAT."
BUT WHAT NICHOLS SAID, BUT
THAT'S NOT WHAT THE
STORYTELLER ASKS HIM OR
HERSELF WHEN WRITING A STORY.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE
FAMOUS-- THE THING THE FAMOUS
STORYTELLER ASKS US?
HOW?
CLOSE.
CLOSE.
WHO?
CLOSE.
>> WHAT FOR?
>> Andre: WHAT FOR?
>> WHAT FOR?
>> Andre: NO.
CLOSE.
I LOVE IT, YOU GUYS.
I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOUR
MINDS.
IT'S A BEAUTIFUL ADJUSTMENT,
VERY ELEGANT ADJUSTMENT, HE
SAID.
NICHOLS SAID THE FAMOUS
STORYTELLER ASKED IS NOT "WHAT
HAPPENED" BUT "WHAT'S IT
LIKE?"
WHAT'S IT REALLY LIKE TO BE IN
THIS THING THAT'S HAPPENED?
RIGHT?
AND THAT'S WHEN THE BUILT-IN
SHOCKPROOF SHIT DETECTOR COMES
IN.
REVISE ACTUALLY MEANS TO SEE
AGAIN.
AND REVISION WE OFTEN THINK,
OH, YEAH, I'VE GOT TO MAKE
THAT A SEMI COLON INSTEAD OF A
HYPHEN.
NO.
SOMETIMES REVISE IS, YOU KNOW,
Mr. TWAIN, WE LIKE "THE
ADVENTURES OF HUCKLEBERRY
FINN," BUT ARE YOU SURE
THERE'S A RIVER IN THAT STORY?
(Laughter)
THAT'S WHAT WE CALL GLOBAL
REVISION, RIGHT?
SO WHAT I'M TELLING YOU IS I
GET TO THE END OF THIS STORY.
IT TOOK ME FOUR YEARS AND I'M
IN THE THIRD YEAR OF IT, AND
IT'S ALL GOING DOWN THE TUBES,
ON A HUMAN LEVEL, AND I FELT
LIKE THAT GUY IN "PERFECT
STORM," THE METEOROLOGIST WHO
LOOKED AT THE COMPUTER SCREEN
AND HE SAID, "I'VE GOT A HIGH
PRESSURE HERE AND LOW PRESSURE
HERE AND WARM HERE AND-- MAN,
THIS IS GOING TO BE A BIG, BIG
STORM!"
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS
AWARE OF WHILE I WAS WRITING
IS THAT ALL OF THESE
CHARACTERS ARE FATALLY FLAWED,
AND I THINK THE SAME WAY.
I'M GOING TO STAY QUIET ON
THAT BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO HEAR
YOUR OPINION BEFORE I SPOUT
OFF.
JUST BECAUSE I WROTE IT
DOESN'T MEAN I KNOW MORE ABOUT
IT AND I REALLY MEAN THAT.
I REMEMBER I WAS FEELING THE
SAME WAY.
I SAID I'VE GOT THIS COLONEL,
WHO HAS GOT TO HAVE THAT
UNIFORM BACK ON.
HE'S VERY PROUD.
HE'S GOT REALLY GOOD
INTENTIONS BUT HE'S VERY PROUD
AND HE HAS A TEMPER.
I HAVE KATHY WHO'S AN ADDICT,
SO WHOSE MANTRA OF HER HEAD,
OF ANY ADDICT IS "I NEED TO
FEEL BETTER NOW, RIGHT NOW,
AND I'LL DO ANYTHING TO FEEL
BETTER NOW."
THEN YOU'VE GOT LESTER, WHO'S
GOT ALL THESE AUTHENTICITY
ISSUES AND HE'S GOT A BIG GUN
AND DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX
WITH HIS WIFE AND FALLS FOR
KATHY, AND I'M THINKING, IF
JUST ONE OF THESE PEOPLE-- I
FELT THIS AFTER I WROTE THE
STORY: IF JUST ONE OF THESE
PEOPLE WERE A LITTLE MORE
HEALTHY, SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING,
I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE
GONE THAT WAY AT ALL.
AND HERE'S THE THING, AND THEN
I'LL CLOSE AND I THINK WE
SHOULD HAVE A LITTLE
CONVERSATION.
I TRULY BELIEVE THAT
OFTENTIMES THE WRITER IS THE
LAST TO KNOW.
I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU TRY TO
WRITE A STORY HONESTLY, AS
HONESTLY AS YOU CAN-- AND NOT
JUST TO YOU.
BLAISE PASCAL SAID "ANYTHING
WRITTEN TO PLEASE THE AUTHOR
IS WORTHLESS."
WHAT?
I DON'T EVEN GET TO LIKE WHAT
I'M WORKING ON?
NO, YOU DON'T.
I DON'T EVEN GET TO PICK WHAT
I WRITE ABOUT?
NO.
YOU CAN ONLY WRITE ABOUT WHAT
TRULY COMES AND THEN YOU HAVE
TO GO AS DEEPLY WITH IT AS YOU
CAN.
THE INTERESTING THING FOR ME
IS-- AND TERRIFYING, TOO,
HONESTLY-- IS IF YOU DO THAT,
YOU'LL END UP WRITING ABOUT
THINGS YOU DIDN'T KNOW YOU
EVEN HAD AN OPINION ON.
YOU KNOW, WHEN THE BOOK FIRST
CAME OUT I WOULD READ THESE
REVIEWS AND THEY TALKED ABOUT
THE IMMIGRANT EXPERIENCE, THE
DARK SIDE OF THE AMERICAN
DREAM, AND I THOUGHT OH,
THAT'S PRETTY GOOD.
IT KIND OF IS ABOUT THE DARK
SIDE OF THE AMERICAN DREAM,
ISN'T IT?
OH, IT KIND OF IS ABOUT THE
IMMIGRANTS.
I HADN'T THOUGHT OF IT THAT
WAY.
THE TRUTH IS, FOUR YEARS OF
WRITING THAT BOOK, I NEVER HAD
THE PHRASE "AMERICAN DREAM" IN
MY HEAD ONCE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT
THERE.
BUT I THINK THAT THE WRITER
WORKS SO HARD ON THINGS LIKE
IS THE SUN IN THEIR FACE OR
BEHIND THEM?
IF IT'S BEHIND THAT, WHAT IS
THAT DOING?
IF SHE SMELLS COLOGNE THAT
REMINDS HER OF HER
GRANDFATHER, WHAT DOES SHE SAY
NEXT?
AND THEN IF YOU FOCUS ON THOSE
PARTICULARS, YOU WILL END UP
SAYING SOMETHING MORE
UNIVERSAL, WHETHER YOU
INTENDED TO OR NOT.
SO I JUST WANT TO CLOSE WITH
THIS WONDERFUL QUOTE FROM
GRACE PALEY, THIS WRITER I
JUST ADORE.
SEE, I THINK THIS IS KNEW,
TOO, WHETHER YOU WRITE A
LETTER TO YOUR MOTHER OR
BROTHER OR YOU WRITE A STORY
YOU DIDN'T KNOW WAS KNEW.
I THINK THE POWER OF
DISCOVERY'S IN ALL OF US.
WHAT SHE SAID WAS,
"WE WRITE WHAT WE DON'T KNOW
WE KNOW."
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
(Applause)
ONLY SECOND INNING REALLY.
I'M KIDDING.
I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE ALL NIGHT
IF YOU WANT ME TO.
BASEBALL CAN WAITS.
I DO WANT TO TALK.
SIR?
(Inaudible question)
YOU GO, BUDDY!
>> (Inaudible question)
...NORMALLY INTERACTING IN
THAT MANNER.
BUT, YEAH, SO I HAVE A
QUESTION, AND IT'S KIND OF--
IT SOUNDS REALLY WEIRD.
>> Andre: NO.
YOU NEED TO USE IT.
>> OKAY.
>> Andre: KIND OF LIKE THE
VOICE OF GOD.
(Laughter)
BE KIND, O VOICE.
>> OKAY.
SO THEN ONLY IF YOU LET THESE
CHARACTERS RUN LOOSE AND YOU
SAID THE QUESTION THAT WAS
AT-- THAT THE AUTHOR ASKED, IT
WASN'T THE LIE, AND THEN YOU
MENTIONED TWAIN RIGHT
AFTERWARDS WITH "HUCKLEBERRY
FINN," WHICH IS ONE OF THE
MOST POIGNANT POLITICAL
STATEMENTS EVER MADE IN A
BOOK, FOR ITS PARTICULAR TIME
PERIOD, AND WHY DID HE DO
THAT?
AND WHEN YOU LET THESE
CHARACTERS GO, WHAT YOU DID,
AND I BELIEVE YOU YOUR OWN
VERY TRUE TO THESE CHARACTERS,
BUT YOU GOT TO THE END.
WHERE'S THE "WHY"?
>> Andre: WHERE'S THE WHY?
>> YEAH.
WHY DID I READ THIS?
AND WHAT POINT DID IT SERVE?
I REALIZE THIS MIGHT BE A
MASSIVE POINT OF IGNORANCE FOR
ME, BUT I REALLY-- I DIDN'T
KNOW WHY.
>> Andre: NO.
IT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I
APPLAUD YOUR ABILITY TO BE
FRANK AND HONEST AND TELL THE
WRITER JUST HOW MUCH YOU HATED
HIS FRIGGIN' BOOK.
(Laughing)
NO, I'M KIDDING.
WHAT'S YOUR FIRST NAME?
ROSS.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE-- TELL ME IF
THIS IS ACCURATE.
YOU FELT-- IT SOUNDS AS IF YOU
WOULD HAVE PREFERRED A LITTLE
GUIDANCE FROM ME, A BIT OF--
MAYBE YOU WEREN'T EVEN SAYING
THAT.
ROSS, YOU WERE SAYING, LOOK,
MAN, WHAT'S THE POINT?
IT ENDS TERRIBLY FOR
EVERYBODY.
WHY PUT ME THROUGH THIS?
>> WELL, NO.
NOT EVEN THAT.
SOMEONE IN OUR CLASS-- WELL...
KILLED HIS BUSINESS FRIEND,
BUT AT LEAST THERE'S A DEEP,
MEANINGFUL RELATIONSHIP THAT
SHOWS THAT IT'S A WORTHWHILE
THING, WHERE THIS, IT JUST
KIND OF-- OKAY.
>> Andre: YEAH.
>> I MEAN THERE'S HUNDREDS OF
STORIES THAT OCCUR EVERY DAY.
YOU COULD TELL MY STORY AND BE
HORRIBLY TRUE WITH IT BUT I
DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE
WOULD WANT TO READ THE STORY
OF MY DAY-TO-DAY.
>> Andre: GOOD.
>> THAT SOUNDS MEANER THAN IT
SHOULD BE.
>> Andre: ROSS, WHAT'S THE
LAST THING YOU SAID?
DON'T APOLOGIZE.
THIS IS MUSIC TO MY EARS, MAN.
I LOVE IT.
I WANT TO HEAR YOUR REACTION.
THAT'S YOUR REACTION.
YOU SAY IT VERY WELL AND YOU
HONOR ME WITH YOUR HONESTY AND
I'LL TRY AND GIVE YOU MY
HONEST REPLY.
>> OKAY, AWESOME.
THANK YOU.
>> Andre: YEAH.
UM, IT'S A COMPLEX ANSWER.
FIRST OF ALL I DON'T HAVE ANY
ANSWERS.
I CAN TELL YOU A FEW THINGS.
FIRST LET ME JUST TALK FOR A
FEW SECONDS ABOUT THE WRITER
PART OF ME AND THEN JUST THE
AUDIENCE PART OF ME.
HEMINGWAY HAD ALSO THIS
WONDERFUL LINE.
HE SAID, "THE JOB OF THE
WRITER IS NOT TO JUDGE BUT TO
SEEK TO UNDERSTAND."
ALL I TRIED TO DO WAS
FREE-FALL INTO THESE PEOPLE'S
PSYCHES AND LET THEM GO WHERE
THEY WENT.
AND WHEN IT SPUN OUT OF
CONTROL I WAS AS HORRIFIED--
MAYBE EVEN MORE SO, BECAUSE
THEY CAME OUT OF ME-- THAN
MAYBE YOU WERE.
SO I ACTUALLY READ A REVIEW
ONCE, TOO, OF THE BOOK AND
SOMEONE SAID, WHERE ARE YOU,
Mr. DUBUS?
I WANT TO KNOW HOW TO READ
THIS.
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO READ
THIS?
I'M ACTUALLY PLEASED THAT YOUR
QUESTION IS WHY?
WHY SHOULD I EVEN DO THIS?
DON'T MEAN TO PUT WORDS IN
YOUR MOUTH, ROSS, BECAUSE IF
YOU HAVE ANOTHER REACTION, I
WANT TO HEAR IT.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
TROUBLED BY IT, DISTURBED.
THEY JUST FEEL LIKE SHIT AFTER
READING IT.
YOU DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAY?
>> I ACTUALLY DON'T CARE ONE
WAY OR ANOTHER.
(Laughter)
>> Andre: (Laughing)
NOW, IS IT THAT YOU DON'T CARE
BECAUSE YOU FEEL NO RAY OF
HOPE AT ALL IN THE END?
>> NO.
MY FAVORITE NOVEL OF ALL
TIME... (Inaudible)
MISERABLE AND I LOVE THAT BOOK
SO MUCH.
BUT THIS BOOK LEAVES ME JUST
LOST.
(Inaudible)
YOU DON'T FEED THEM IN A WAY
THAT YOU DERIVE SOMETHING FROM
YOUR LIFE FOR IT.
IT'S JUST A STORY.
IT'S A TALE THAT-- WHEN
SOMEONE'S TELLING IT TO YOU,
YOU SIT THERE AND YOU JUST NOD
WITHOUT THE ACTUAL CARING
THAT'S BEHIND YOUR FACE, YOU
KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
>> Andre: GOTCHA.
>> I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY TO
READ THIS, WHY?
WHAT DO I ACCOMPLISH AND WHAT
DO I GET OUT OF IT?
SORRY.
MY TEACHER'S PROBABLY GOING TO
YELL AT ME.
>> Andre: WHAT'S THAT?
NO, DON'T YELL.
(Applause)
NO, I LOVE THIS.
NO, THIS IS GOOD.
I MEAN, LOOK, YOU'VE GOT TO
KNOW, MAN, IT IS A-- IT'S AN
HONOR TO PUBLISH WORK, AND IF
YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE WORK
PUBLIC, THEN YOU HAVE GOT TO
TAKE IT ON-- YOU'VE GOT TO
TAKE ON THE CHIN WHATEVER
REACTION YOUR READERS MAY
HAVE.
MAN, YOU HAVEN'T HURT MY
FEELINGS AT ALL.
I LOVE HEARING IT.
IT'S INTERESTING.
I TAKE IT IN.
I CAN TELL YOU-- SO I'M
HEARING IS A LACK OF-- WELL,
NO, I THINK YOU'VE SAID IT
WELL.
LET ME JUST TELL YOU THE
AUDIENCE PART OF ME.
I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
ASKED ME, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE
REDEEMING QUALITY HERE?
I MEAN THIS IS HOPELESS.
WHY SHOULD I READ SOMETHING
HOPELESS?
FIRST I WASN'T TRYING TO WRITE
A HOPELESS BOOK.
I ACTUALLY THINK THERE IS A
LITTLE BIT OF HOPE THERE.
WITHOUT GIVING IT AWAY, I
THINK KATHY SHOWS SOME CHANGE.
I MEAN IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT
WHAT HAPPENED HAD TO HAPPEN
FOR HER LITTLE PERSONAL
GROWTH, BUT I THINK THAT SHE'S
CHANGED.
BUT I HAVE TO SAY YOU GUYS, I
DON'T BELIEVE THE CHARACTERS
HAVE TO CHANGE.
AND I'M TELLING YOU THERE ARE
500 Ph.D.s WHO WOULD SHOOT ME
FOR THAT, AND FELLOW WRITERS.
I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT A
STORY HAS TO INSTRUCT.
I ALSO DON'T THINK A STORY HAS
TO TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT HOW
TO LIVE BETTER.
I ALSO DON'T THINK A STORY HAS
TO DO ANYTHING BUT BE TRUE TO
THE PEOPLE IN IT.
THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY
TOXIC.
I AGREE WITH YOU.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
SURPRISED ME, ROSS, AND THE
REST OF YOU, WHEN I FIRST
STARTED HEARING PUBLIC
REACTION TO THIS BOOK A FEW
YEARS AGO, THE FIRST LADY--
WHOEVER SAID THIS SAID, YOU
KNOW, I LIKE THE BOOK.
I JUST HATED EVERYBODY IN IT.
AND AT FIRST I WAS SURPRISED.
IT WAS AS IF SOMEBODY SAID,
YOU KNOW, I LIKE YOUR UNCLE
BUT I HATE THE REST OF YOUR
FAMILY.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOU FEEL AT
FIRST DEFENSIVE AND YOU SAY,
WELL, I CAN SEE WHY YOU HATE
HIM.
I ACTUALLY WOULDN'T WANT
ANYBODY TO GO OUT WITH MY
UNCLE HARRY EITHER.
HE'S KIND OF A